Flying in Italy - why so difficult?

When and how do Croatians go on holidays in their own country?

They usually go to Croatian seaside in July/August but they choose cheaper accommodation, shortening it to one week, avoiding hotels and resorts.

@Emir: Maybe I need to ask the question differently: When and how do Croatians go on holidays in their own country?

Dahlbeck wrote:

It bothers me a lot more when the bigger airports, such as Visby (ESSV) have PPR for flights outside of ATS opening hours, especially when you need to call the airport admin during office hours to request it.

Fully agree. Asking for PPR at bigger airports is way more annoying, than asking for permission for a certain farm strip. Especially if you just want to visit shortly for refueling or so, which is mostly not available at farm strips, but is in fact on bigger airports.

Asking for PPR can also be very different from airfield to airfield. In Italy, it’s mostly calling a number from the Avioportolano, but you need to be prepared that the other side speaks only poorly English, if they speak English at all. At least Italians are (as mentioned before) always very welcoming people, so even with a language barrier, they try to be nice and accomodating. A total different story compared to France. Luckily, most airfields in France are “ouvert à la CAP”, otherwise I would be quite screwed. At least I know the basic radio calls in French, which I don’t know in Italian.

PPR hasn’t to be a big hassle though. In an organized country like Switzerland, where most airfields are in fact PPR, it works even quite well for spontaneous visits. Most airfields do have an automated answering machine, in case nobody picks up the phone, with these kind of messages: “The airfield is open.”

Croatia is getting expensive in general and therefore less attractive during the high season. Hotels did ask crazy prices during August, which was far and beyond of my budget. Also most airports are not cheap. Even LDLO asks quite a lot of money for landing and few days parking. Not to mention the outrageous handling fees at LDDU.

That’s why GA practically doesn’t exist in Croatia and you won’t see Croatian tourists in these hotels very often, at least in high season.

Peter wrote:

That is why it is worth getting the IR, and using it

Trying to do that, but all that VFR flight preparation for those great flights consumes so much time, that advancing with the IR gets difficult (seems closely related to this )

chflyer wrote:

I thought a lot (most?) of the private grass strips in the UK were PPR. Is that wrong, or how does it work there if not by email or phone?

PPR => phone number to call, you get instant permission
PNR => emails & webforms, you have done your job

Now PPR with no phone number gets tricky: I send email or webform 3 days in advance, if no one replies, I take fuel & food and fly
So far only one guy got pissed and we left his place, he should have replied on email that we are not welcome…

Dahlbeck wrote:

since I would usually call anyway to check runway conditions and other practicalities

I already had my part landing on a closed grass strip which was closed for a very good reason. It was so wet that water was standing on it. On the very short rollout I was smart enough to shutoff the engine, and when we came to halt the nosewheel broke through the grass and was about 25 cm down (no damage to the aircraft). This was with a microlight, so the weight on the nosewheel isn’t really so high. So I just lifted it out the hole by hand and we found a way where grass was not so wet to roll to a concrete surface.

After that experience, I now do contact any airfield regardless of it’s size prior to my arrival just in case. You know, I do think that if airfield was closed they would tell me. So it’s a win-win situation, isn’t it? Compared to the amount of time involved in weather and trip preparation, writing a short email or phoning and asking, e.g., whether fuel will be available or stuff like that, isn’t really worth noting, in the end.

Dream on. You go on to confirm that as a general rule, this simply doesn’t work

That is why it is worth getting the IR, and using it

Actually, I don’t mind the small grass strips having PPR, since I would usually call anyway to check runway conditions and other practicalities.

It bothers me a lot more when the bigger airports, such as Visby (ESSV) have PPR for flights outside of ATS opening hours, especially when you need to call the airport admin during office hours to request it.

Peter wrote:

That, however, is simply not the way the system is supposed to work. The required info is supposed to be in the AIP, and anything else is supposed to be notamed.

Dream on. You go on to confirm that as a general rule, this simply doesn’t work. That “system” is broken when applied across Europe as a whole. Any pilot who flies internationally in Europe knows that several countries’ AIPs are hopelessly out of date. It’s been discussed here to death that using the AIP/NOTAM exclusively is a good way to either get stuck somewhere or worse, end up with a legal issue. Some countries are fine. Others are definitely not.

Peter wrote:

If there is nobody there, and nobody picking up emails etc, how do you get PPR?

Basically you end up on a runaround… It’s a common problem.

I thought a lot (most?) of the private grass strips in the UK were PPR. Is that wrong, or how does it work there if not by email or phone?