My wild guess is that an A320 pays 1-2k to land there.
Peter wrote:
My wild guess is that an A320 pays 1-2k to land there.
A320 78t MTOW and 150 PAX, according to https://www.fraport-greece.com/uploads/page_art/0/241/Pricelist%20April%202024-%20CFU%20-%20ENG-1.pdf
TOTAL: 3670,50 EUR
Wouldn’t then also add to that the fees for using the check-in counters?
Mooney_Driver wrote:
whereas in Europe they are looked at as playground for the privileged
I don’t think that is correct. It’s mostly looked at from a commercial point of view. From that point of view, private GA is a nuisance: a small gang of complaining amateurs that have no money to spend in any case 
Commercial GA is mostly about stuffing as many people into an aircraft as possible, going to Grand Canaria to relax with sun and wine This is no privilege situation, it’s only money talking. The more half drunk tourists with open wallets, the better Bizjets don’t care about these prices anyway, it’s nothing in comparison with the total operational costs.
Right, so cheaper than a Cessna 172…
For comparison, at Luxembourg airport, same airplane same PAX pays
Well I was in the right ballpark, but I would be surprised if the big names pay the list price
In any other area of business, nobody big pays any openly published price 
Let’s face it, we have had Ryanair being paid to dump 150 Brits to some French provincial airport…
And I can totally believe a bizjet paying 2x more than an A320, due to the above.
LeSving wrote:
From that point of view, private GA is a nuisance: a small gang of complaining amateurs that have no money to spend in any case
Yes, for the commercial airports that is what it is.
That there are no infrastructure oriented smaller airports however has to do with the presumption that GA is only for the rich and privileged and does not need specific and well equipped airports for them.
The whole discussion would not happen, if the cities involved would have viable GA fields like many do in the US for instance and some do here. But this means airfields which are not “farm strips” but viable airports with IFR, night, concrete runways which can accomodate most GA planes e.t.c.
And it is not that they don’t exist, but they are often again taken up by some interest groups or the military, who also don’t want small GA or where local NIMBY groups successfully lobby to exclude any civilian use. That for instance has happened here in ZRH where LSMD was planned to be used as GA relief airfield for LSZH but that was shot down by the communities and finally a socialist transport minister.
But airports which do have a monopoly, such as LGKR or most island airports, meaning there is NO CHOICE to use it other than not to travel, there we absolutely need European legislation outlawing outpricing and outright banning by declaring this infrastructure or under the anti monopoly legislation Won’t happen I suppose but that is what would put a stop to this.
Or open up the airfields to multiple FBOs rather than creating a govt-endorsed private monopoly, the worst of all worlds.
Clearly commercialization of aviation is not good for GA. The irony is that the only place that has not commercialized aviation (infrastructure and ATC services) is the USA.
It’s not ironic at all. One of the strengths of the US is the relatively unambiguous understanding of the role of US Federal and State governments, what they may not do, in order to preserve individual freedom, but also what they must do to prevent chaos. Regulation of interstate commerce is thereby an enumerated Federal power in the US Constitution. It’s not arbitrary.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
That there are no infrastructure oriented smaller airports however has to do with the presumption that GA is only for the rich and privileged and does not need specific and well equipped airports for them.
Your presumption is obviously that “someone” has to create a very expensive working infrastructure for a tiny patch of people who are incapable/unwilling to pay themselves for that infrastructure. That is never going to happen.
At best we can hope to piggyback on the commercial infrastructure at a cost that we can live with. The actual added cost of this for an airport, is pretty much negligible, but without a firm and GA friendly management, the airlines will through negotiation, use this for what it’s worth to push down their prices. A GA friendly airport (cheap for GA) will never be a good tactical move for a commercial airport that is serving commercial airlines first. The reality is that many are hardly floating as it is, and being “nice” to GA is a luxury they cannot afford, if they have time to deal with it at all. This needs lobbying on a broad front.
The other reality is that 99% of GA pilots are VFR pilots. We have no need whatsoever for anything except a 4-600 m grass strip, fuel and a hangar. This is something we are better off fixing ourselves. It’s better to support those initiatives, and we will have a separate infrastructure that actually works and can be expanded, if it isn’t already.
