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Best GA airfield near Munich?

Is that true Howard? My Jepp VFR approach plate does show N1 and does indicate the VOR radial plus all the other points you mentioned although I would not be looking for a motorway. I do agree though that sometimes VRPs are very difficult to find, even when you know where they are.

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

VFR reporting points are always a bit tricky when you are new to the airport. Lat/long works for me.

And Howard I think you will find that the Golden ball is actually at West Wycombe House. While the ball itself is tricky to see the house on the ridge is very prominent.

Last Edited by JasonC at 11 Jun 09:41
EGTK Oxford

@Peter_Mundy I stand corrected and thank you. I hadn’t seen the VOR radial on the Jepp plate. Helpful, but I think we both agree about how hard it is to find VFR reporting points in general.

@JasonC – you miss my point. When speaking to Wycombe inbound, they don’t say “Report at West Wycombe House”. They say “Report at the Golden Ball” and they say this to people like me who learned from the start of flying from Wycombe (I was based at EGTB for years) where the ball was (i.e. on the top of the church on the ridge at West Wycombe), but they also say it to people flying in to Wycombe for the first time, few of whom can find it or see it! They could helpfully change and start saying instead “Report at the Church on the ridge” (…you know, the church with the ball on the top that is no longer golden and which is small and almost invisible from the air)" :D

Flying a TB20 out of EGTR
Elstree (EGTR), United Kingdom

@Howard, I don´t know why Jepp did not print the VOR radial-DME next to the VRP which would make life much easier for all.

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

Novermber 1 for Augsburg is that tiny lake that you just barely see on the chart (they obviously did not put the VRP symbol right over it). It was difficult for
my students… when coming back in from a sortie to the north, they were anxious about missing it and blundering into the CTR (this is one of those things hammered into their heads during groundschool – fly into a CTR and you will be shot down ). So some of them frantically started looking for N1 way too soon, sometimes 5 or 10 miles north of it – and they do have some more small
lakes there… good times…

Last Edited by boscomantico at 11 Jun 11:04
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Howard wrote:

A VFR GPS is clearly the only way unless one know the area from local flying. I’m surprised by this.

I was serious when I wrote “Pilotage”. Before GPSs were around pilots did find the VRPs by pilotage. I’ve done so myself many times without being a local.

GPS is a marvelous tool for VFR and IFR flying alike and I wouldn’t want to be without it — but it is not the only way.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Pilotage is indeed a dying skill but then following the magenta line is so much easier but can get you into trouble if your GPS fails and you do not know how to navigate the old fashioned way

Last Edited by Peter_Mundy at 11 Jun 11:32
EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

Pilotage is indeed a dying skill but then following the magenta line is so much easier but can get you into trouble if your GPS fails and you do not know how to navigate the old fashioned way

If I got a penny every time I heard this in my short flying life (16 years) I would now have a TBM

Most of the people who say this are people who fly only locally and therefore they know the local area. Of course there are exceptions but on my travels I have probably never met one who ventured out of his local area without GPS.

Flying by visual nav works fantastically well, until it doesn’t, and most people soon work out which tool works best.

Regarding VRPs, ATC are “complicit” in the practice, by giving certain, ahem, not quite published VRPs only to pilots who they know know where they are. For example the (excellent) ATC at Shoreham EGKA will happily send me to “report at the tunnels” because they know I prob99 drove through there on my way to the airport along the A27, but they would not do it to a foreign pilot because flying with a road atlas is not exactly ICAO practice

ATC should not hand out such VRPs at all; they should stick to published ones, but if they know what they are doing then it all works. The problem is when you get some arrogant ATCO with Level 1.5 ELP who wants to make a point. That link is directly on-topic here.

I am 100% certain that some ATCOs use VRPs to make the point that they are in charge and if you can’t find the VRP then you have no business visiting their country.

I don´t know why Jepp did not print the VOR radial-DME next to the VRP which would make life much easier for all.

Probably because almost nobody navigates by reference to VORs (other than by using them, and also NDBs, as GPS database points) and has not done so since GPS caused the bottom to fall out of the navigation business

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Probably because almost nobody navigates by reference to VORs (other than by using them, and also NDBs, as GPS database points) and has not done so since GPS caused the bottom to fall out of the navigation business

So why did they bother to do it with S1

The point is iPad devices can and do fail – you do need to carry on where the GPS left off

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

The radial is there – in footnote 1 on the bottom left.

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