Capitaine wrote:
Is this true?
I don’t buy that. The PA39 is at least as fast as the PA30.
In the Looking for a TB20 thread the 2024 posts were moved from, Mooney Driver recommended the Twin Comanche. Reading up on Aviation Consumer, one of the comments is:
Counter-rotating props: A detrimental modification. It costs about 10 knots.
Is this true?
I can’t see how it would make a difference, except maybe interference between the two propwashes?
it seemed to take longer than a minute
It’s a very long minute 
We trained to 500ft OEI but in the sim to 200ft in IMC.
A simulated left engine out always used to do my right leg just below the hip. In a simulated engine fail at 500ft and going missed it seemed to take longer than a minute before being able to start trimming the rudder, but I never timed it and I am not a regular swimmer which would indeed strengthen the muscles needed🙂
gallois wrote:
@Emir did you never do OEI and go missed exercises in the final approach during training and in annual check outs?
In DA42 only simulated at 2000 ft or above. In Seneca I did it few times on actual approaches. In simulator for various types I did it many times.
gallois wrote:
Personally, I would never, ever, ever use rudder trim OEI until I have controlled, cleaned up and regulated the aircraft.
Me neither. I just commented that using trim would ease your leg. And I can’t imagine scenario in which my leg is tired after a minute or so which is more than enough to clean the aircraft and bring it to stable climb.
My point is statistically MEP is worse than SEP iirc. DA42/62 excluded.
@Emir did you never do OEI and go missed exercises in the final approach during training and in annual check outs?
Personally, I would never, ever, ever use rudder trim OEI until I have controlled, cleaned up and regulated the aircraft.
Or as my instructor used to call them The good, the bad and the ugly. The retrimming coming during the ugly.
Usually with counter rotating props as on the Seneca there is less stress on the live leg.
Snoopy wrote:
How realistic is it to stay proficient (150+ hrs/year) in a MEP?
I am with gallois on this. 150 hrs only flying AEO and not bothering about OEI procesdures will do less for safety than recalling them frequently and over and over again. And yes, you can do that anywhere, not necessarily in the plane. Kitchen table, bath tub, train ride to twork (just don’t kick anyone), whereever. Same goes for memory items on any kind of equipment you use and also for SEP’s.
Currency and proficiency should go hand in hand but often don’t. Flight hours alone don’t say anything about proficiency to handle OEI situations. It’s a question of initial training, re-training, type specific training and recurrency which make the difference, not the simple fact that you may or not fly 150 hrs a year or not, which hardly anyone manages.
I have seen several twin crashes as a consequence of loss of control after engine failures which happened to ultra-current folks in the sense that they flew almost weekly or even for a living, but never gave a damn about their OEI skills outside whatever compulsory training they had to do. If you only fly VFR, in theory you can go years and years without any training. Yet people who may fly a lot less but because of their relative small currency take briefing OEI seriously and re-train it at every chance possible (on sims and airplane) may end up in a better situation than high hour pilots who do not.
Also there is a huge difference between airplanes. Some are quite benign OEI, such as I recall the Travel Air and I’ve also heard about the Twin Comanche, others like the Seneca and larger planes need a lot of force and physical strenght to keep them straight initially. It’s a direct function of power, if you have two 300 hp engines and one quits, the power needed to keep it straight will be a lot more than on 2x 160 hp. So in many OEI situations, those small twins are quite less demanding to keep flying than those with huge engines. Even in Jets, there is a huge difference between e.g. wing or tail mounted engines and the thrust vector they produce.
Obviously, the worst scenario in any plane, MEP and SEP alike, is the EFATO scenario, where you have a maximum of power and yaw if one engine goes bad. On light MEPs, any failure before the airplane is clean and above Vyse means to reland, just like in a SEP, only that you have to agressively take the power back on the live engine. These things need to be briefed before EVERY departure and trained as often as possible. Once clean and established in a climb, OEI becomes already much more benign and in cruise, if you have to shut down an engine (or it goes bad), you have plenty of time to sort out the memory items and secure the engine, then start your drift down or OEI cruise.
Yet, in SEPs, we see the same kind of accidents, because people react too slow or not decisive enough if the dreaded EFATO happens and for the same reason: lack of briefing, lack of training and sometimes also lack of options.
So would I let a low time pilot loose on a Twin Com or Seneca? Once he has completed his training to the standards required sure, why not. It’s probably during initial MEP training and type introduction that you are on top of the game as you almost only fly OEI. But the clearly operative words are: If he is up to standards, not once, but every time. And as a student who reads and listens to those who really know, not only hearsay but on hand, should know that and keep to it.
I’ve not touched a real twin for 20 odd years and have very few experience, but I ended up on a privately owned ATC810 a couple of weeks ago and found that yea, if you put your mind to it, it comes back fast. And the 810 is one sim where the control forces are much worse than on most actual airplanes, so students who came from it and went on light twins often overcontrol.
I’d think any serious pilot who has between 100 and 150 hours TT and used them well should be able to transition to his first MEP and operate it as well as he operates his SEP, if he takes them seriously without actually being scared of them.
Snoopy wrote:
How realistic is it to stay proficient (150+ hrs/year) in a MEP?
Only by flying MEP all the time, although I think 150+ hrs/year looks a bit excessive.
gallois wrote:
OEI in a DA42 on a missed approach can make the non dead leg tremble.
OEI balked landing is definitely not recommended on DA42. On any OEI you should use rudder trim to ease leg pressure.
The thing about OEI operations in a twin is that you are really just automating mantras so you don’t have to fly 150hrs to remain current. You can gain that automation sitting in your kitchen. What will be different with different types are things like Vyse, Vmca etc figures. Most of this can be done on the ground. Owning and flying a twin as opposed to a single is possibly more about learning to do lists and using check lists and scans to ensure you have done them.
For some twins you might want to ensure your legs are strengthened up a bit, OEI in a DA42 on a missed approach can make the non dead leg tremble.
