But now this thread has got me thinking: “is it correct that a fully ICAO compliant PPL can be rendered sub-ICAO at the whim of EASA for no other reason than they created a competing PPL?”…Doesn’t seem right to me.
I don’t think EASA (as an EU agency) has ever rendered invalid any license or rating.
They “just” defined a class of aircraft (“EASA aircraft”) and said that only an “EASA” license can be used on that class of aircraft 
With the UK in the EU, the UK has to obey this, because EASA is an agency of the EU and the EU is a European government (via directives).
With the UK out of the EU, the UK can set all this aside and just allow the UK national PPL to be used on everything from a C150 to a 747, which is the ICAO position. I would be surprised if the UK doesn’t do exactly that and publish a 1-page flyer authorising the UK PPL for all these planes, in UK airspace. Post-Brexit, the only limit on what the UK CAA can do, within ICAO obviously, is only how far they can stick a finger up to the EU. IMHO the EU will have much bigger fish to fry anyway… look at the French DGAC sticking a finger up to the EU on the cost sharing regs – nobody can do anything about that. They aren’t going to ban French beef exports.
Exactly the same with FAA papers. EASA has not rendered them invalid (despite what many people think, and post on forums). Only the FAA can do that. EASA has “just” passed a reg which says, blah blah blah, if the operator is EU based, blah, blah, you know the rest…. 
In fact you still need the FAA papers to fly an N-reg.
Especially when issued for life by UK and when operating outside of EASA governed airspace, i.e. most of the world, in a non-EU registered aircraft.
A great point; EASA (post Brexit) will lose any power over that usage. Actually I wonder if they have that power currently.
Peter wrote:
With the UK out of the EU, the UK can set all this aside and just allow the UK national PPL to be used on everything from a C150 to a 747, which is the ICAO position.
Don’t rejoice too soon. You absolutely do not know whether the UK will choose to remain an EASA member state or not just like Norway and Switzerland which are not members of the EU but are member of EASA.
Please also keep in mind that EASA, the European commission and parliament all have plenty of UK representatives who have taken part in creating this regulation, and I am sure that they have weighed in significantly. It has not all been created by “foreigners”.
By stepping out of EASA and reverting to national licenses, UK pilots would also loose the privilege to fly non-G-reg airplanes without validation by the relevant NAA, and probably also vice versa. We may also end up with the funny side effect that EASA pilots who want to own/fly G-reg aircraft will need both national UK papers AND EASA licenses if the provisions about EU-based operators having to have EASA licenses and ratings come into force.
A UK PPL (ANO Schedule 8 Part 1 Chapter 2) is exactly what it was when it was issued an ICAO licence valid for life, it has not been downgraded. NPPL (Schedule 8 Part 1 Chapter 3) different kettle of fish.
The problem is that EASA, who are not a member of ICAO and are never likely to be, only accept EASA licences for use in EASA States in EASA aircraft by residents of those States. That is itself quite curious as one of the EU Objectives for EASA is to "Assist States to comply with ICAO Recommendations!
Once you leave EASA land, you can exercise the privileges of your National licence in whatever manner the State you are in allows. Unfortunately, if you take with you an EASA aircraft you are stuck with the EASA rules.
I doubt that Brexit will have any significant effect, the CAA has neither the money, the inclination nor the knowledge to revert anything back to the days of common sense; they are more likely to interfere with the regulations, by adding to them and cause a greater unlevelling of the playing field. They will apply the regulation in the hope that UK EASA licences are accepted throughout Europe.
all have plenty of UK representatives who have taken part in creating this regulation
And the resulting regulation was not necessarily what those representitives asked for! We had a prety good system in this country before we threw it all in the bin to joint the club, because of the perceived advantages , whatever they might have been.
Tumbleweed wrote:
A UK PPL (ANO Schedule 8 Part 1 Chapter 2) is exactly what it was when it was issued an ICAO licence valid for life, it has not been downgraded.Once you leave EASA land, you can exercise the privileges of your National licence in whatever manner the State you are in allows. Unfortunately, if you take with you an EASA aircraft you are stuck with the EASA rules.
Perfect, that’s what I figured would be the case for UK/EU expats I know, but thanks for the confirmation. None of them are flying EU registered aircraft, or have any plans to do so in the future.
I believe my US 61.75 issued on my UK licence is invalid until I convert to an EASA, and pay the CAA to revalidate on it, requiring a personal appearance. I’d intended doing this earlier this month, but have been ill.
At one time I think the CAA restricted their licence to the UK.
Maoraigh wrote:
I believe my US 61.75 issued on my UK licence is invalid until I convert to an EASA, and pay the CAA to revalidate on it, requiring a personal appearance. I’d intended doing this earlier this month, but have been ill.
I guess that’s the nub of what’s being questioned here. As others have stated, The UK CAA in its new role as a branch of EASA, requires EASA licences to fly EASA registered aircraft, including G-Reg (other than Annex 2 aircraft). But the old UK CAA PPL is still a valid ICAO licence and should be recognized as such by all ICAO contracting states including the USA. I argued this at the time when I was being told I would need to get my 61.75 reissued with the EASA licence number on it (before the UK CAA made arrangements to have it done at Gatwick)…. I never bothered because I got a standalone FAA licence but I still believe my 61.75 certificate based on the old UK CAA Licence is still valid (as long as I have a UK or FAA medical)…
At one time I think the CAA restricted their licence to the UK.
Is that actually correct? I think under the derogation (which expires in April this year) they allowed a UK CAA PPL to be used to fly a G-reg (all EASA reg?) in the UK.
Peter wrote:
But – a silly Q probably – why does anyone keep this national PPL and not convert to an EASA one?
Actually Peter for a hobby pilot I think the question should be why an earth has anyone switched to an EASA one?
Time after time I see people coming back to flying with an old UK valid for life PPL and its so much cheaper and easier to get back flying again.
Medical declaration (free), training as required then test. Examiner then signs the license. No CAA involvement or fees involved at all. The whole lot could even be done in a day (and has been)
If you have a JAR license you have to get a medical from one of those robbing AME – 200 quid. Training as required and test. Then send it off to the CAA wait 6 weeks and get shafted 300 quid.
Even if you have an EASA one and the ratings expired. If its on the back then it has to go to the CAA to be reissued before you can fly. Again another 6 week wait and 100 quid. Plus any ratings that are expired now go on the back eg my MEP so its the another ball ache when you want it back again.
Therefore I have no hesitation is stating that for the leisure flyer the old UK PPL is far better than any of the European offerings.
Of course all are eclipsed by the FAA PPL for a hobby pilot. As the re-validation/renewal system actually works. And when you re-validate your Single Engine Land rating. Not only can you fly your jetprop, Cessna 172 but by default you MEL and rotary ratings are also re-validated.
And finally the date is 8th April 2018 and I bet that will slip.
Surely you need an AME medical for ICAO compliance i.e. to be able to fly outside the UK. Otherwise the NPPL is just as good.
I would argue that a “hobby pilot” is quite likely to become a “hobby non pilot” pretty fast if he/she doesn’t focus on getting value out of flying, in some way. And going abroad is one of the best ways.
At one time I think the CAA restricted their licence to the UK.
The CAA has no power to do that. It can say that the licence is not issued in accordance with ICAO recommendations.
Another interesting line in the ANO that many miss is:
Extra-territorial effect of the Order
17.—(1) Except where the context otherwise requires, the provisions of this Order, in so far as they apply (whether by express reference or otherwise)—
(a) to aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, apply to such aircraft wherever they may be; and
(b) apply to such other aircraft when they are within the United Kingdom or on or in the neighbourhood of an offshore installation.
But peter where I live the continent is 3 hours away by Cessna 150 which if they self fly hire is going to cost then 600 quid.
Many hobby pilots can’t afford this. A simple burger run to a local airfield is all they do.
