What Autopilot for PA28 Arrow III when upgrading

Avidyne has been working at the limit of their financial and engineering resources since for ever. Garmin make sure that Avidyne has very little room for maneuver. I will still install 2 × IFD one day; a better product IMHO and a better fit for my plane.

It is extremely difficult to get GA pilots to participate in any group activity The exception is particular type specific groups where a very high degree of group- and brand-loyalty exists, but that doesn’t really apply when looking for a diverse group of owners to put their hands in their pockets. Many have tried.

Peter wrote:

It is extremely difficult to get GA pilots to participate in any group activity

If you refer to S-tec’s attempt to shift the risk onto end customers, I think it is pure due diligence. When I saw the deal, I immediately knew I would not do it. If I remember right, it would have meant you loose use of the plane for something like 9 months (or until the STC is through, which could be a lot more) and on top still pay the full price of the set. Installation in a plane which has a 55x is minimal, a converter plug goes onto the existing tray, so thanks for doing that for “free” but 9 months where the plane is more or less a test vehicle, nope sorry. And they said they need 10 volonteers. Maybe this explains why some rather exotic planes like the Comanche is certified for the 3100 while the PA28 is not.

Avidyne apparently tried the same kind of thing, but when people ran far and fast claimed “no interest”. Their DCF90 initial product was, so I hear, sponsored by Cirrus, who provided test ships for them to work on. How Beech and some others got certified, no idea.

Sorry, but that is not how you sell products. IMHO, development of a new avionic set, AP’s particularly, requires them to be available for all the popular models. Which means Cessnas 172/182/210, PA28 whole series, M20 all of them, SR20/22, Bonanzas as a total must to start out with and then bring less popular but still available in numbers on line.

I vividly recall when one member here lost his Robin trying to install some avionics on a similar attempt. Nobody in his right mind will agree to something like this.

Most firms in GA

• struggle to make money from low volumes

• struggle to develop products because they are short of smart people (a product every 5 years looks terrible on a CV)

• are squeezed between customers who are easily (understandably) p1ssed off on one hand (see the EDNY slot saga) and installers who are mostly so inept they can only follow a wiring diagram

• are resource limited so need to remain focused on the low hanging fruit

• Garmin have eaten the low hanging fruit (they have lots of advantages; not just volume but also in-house certification after the purchase of UPSAT) and almost totally dominate the business

The lost Robin was a case of the customer being lied to about a sponsored STC which Aspen pulled out of doing (that’s the short version; one can read the link).

I’ve seen this loads of times e.g. an STC for a turbo for the TB20, various autopilot propositions, almost anything to do with Robin STCs, you name it. Companies are cautious.

The Beech fleet is huge.

Darkfixer wrote:

Auto control IIIb 1-axis auto pilot?

I kind of overread this one. You mean you got a working Autocontrol IIIb in there? Single axis? Coupled to the Aspen?

In that case, I would ask your avionic shop (and other avionic shops) if they can organize a S-Tec 30 ALT or better a 60PSS. The 60PSS does ALT hold, VS, GS. The 30 only Alt Hold. They are no longer available new I believe (asking won’t hurt) but they are available used.

What that will do is give you a full pitch channel without having to forego the Aspens LNAV/GPSS functions and they are massively cheaper than a full 55×.

For a Piper Arrow which has a fully cupled IIIB in functional condition, that is a very inexpensive way to upgrade.

Darkfixer wrote:

Maybe there is a possibility to get a S-Tec 30 Alt, but it will be around 9K EUR installed, and then you still have the old auto control.

Or a 60PSS. That would give you a full pitch channel. VS/ALT/GS. I’ve seen those a lot with working single channel AP’s and chances are, the avionic shops may have some they took out of upgrades.

Darkfixer wrote:

I would be most happy with a S-Tec 55X, but think 30k +´vat is lots of money and for similar money you can get 2x GI 275 + GFC 500.

As i said before, I have this setup and it works adequately for me.

Darkfixer wrote:

Cancel the deal on the Arrow III and find another aircraft could also be an option?
But the actual aircraft lots of other good stuff…

It is always better to get an airplane which has “everything” you are looking for, particularly an AP. But that may be elusive and a long search. If everything else fits and the 30k upgrade is within your budget, then why not grab it. The Arrow III is a quite capable airplane with a decent range.

The situation is vastly apparent by looking at other aircraft for sale. Most aircraft with an Aspen display still have the old Century APs installed.
See here or here.

And in some rare cases, some previous owner took the plunge and installed the 55X. Like here. These aircraft are of course a bit more desirable from that point of view.

Very very few Aspen aircraft have modern APs installed yet.

That is probably as expected given the Aspen is the lowest cost option, so it would correlate with minimised expenditure on the autopilot.

boscomantico wrote:

Very very few Aspen aircraft have modern APs installed yet.

I would say that has to do with the fact that the Garmin product does not interface with it. There are some (early Cirri for instance) which have the DCF90 AP linked to the Aspen, which works just fine if there is an STC.

The latter of the two airplanes you indicated actually has the Century IIB plus the STEC 30 Alt. I actually was wondering whether that IS the candidate airplane but if so, there is no need to do anything, as it has two axis, or possibly change the 30 Alt to a 60PSS, which is basically a change of computer and interfacing to the Navs.

Peter wrote:

That is probably as expected given the Aspen is the lowest cost option,

The Aspen 1000 Pro Max is more expensive than 2 x G5 if I am not mistaken, but it also offers a lot more. I would not think that the reason there are very few modern AP’s with Aspens is that people are stingy, but that there are no STC’s for the “modern” offerings.

“Modern” AP’s are in my view the DCF90 and the GFC500. I would not include the Stec 3100 as “modern” as it is only a vamped up 55x, but even if we include it for the fact that it has similar modes, it lacks STC’s for a huge part of the fleet which are in need of new AP’s. The GFC500 is the only AP which does have extensive STC’s so for most of the prospective buyers it is either that (which means the Aspen won’t interface) or the 55×.

Given the fact that the 55x is a slightly more independent piece of hardware than e.g. the G500 which needs GPS and the G5 to work, it is no wonder therefore that it is still being sold in numbers.

It would still be very good if Avidyne and Genesys got their act together and include popular airframe families like the PA28 and the M20 into their STC list. Both of which together imho have thousands of possible upgrade candidates. But if they prefer to leave a quasi monopoly to Garmin… what can we do.

That ship has sailed. It’s GFC500 or nothing.