Capitaine wrote:
People bring their own limitations, perceived or otherwise, e.g. I don’t know how to fly abroad, I have to be in the office on Monday etc.
I definitely think there is a correlation between at what age you get the PPL and your limitations in flying. It’s the same with all things in life. Young people go on inter-rail or around the world trips, hardly sleeping, eating junk food, never know where you end up the next day and so on. When getting older, you rather go on a cruise in the Caribbean, where everything is nice, clean, comfy, safe and trouble free. Starting with stuff at an older age, you often just don’t have the energy, “invincibility” and carelessness to fully exploit it. Besides, when young and being met with a wall of rules and regulations, as in PPL today, and have to pay premium for it. Young people seldom do that unless it’s part of a career. At this point, gliding and microlight is very different from PPL.
I have found this debate both interesting and at times rather depressing with a number of you predicting an end to GA as soon as the generation of more mature (agewise) pilots, like myself, falls off their perch.
I am not so pessimistic. The growth of the ULM in France over recent years has been incredible. I note that some here talk of GA and the ULM as separate entities when surely the ULM is just as much a part GA as the homebuilt, the experimental the vintage aircraft and what many call spam cans. The reasons for the growth in ULM could be any one or more of a number of things. Here in France it could be the short time it can take to get a licence and that licence is given by your instructor, as is the very concise theory test. It could be the fact that your own GP declaring that you are fit to fly is enough for the medical. Could it be that ULM’s, even those that you would have a hard time deciding whether they are ULM or certified aircraft in their looks are more fuel efficient than the average spam can and run better on mogas, (important in Europe where fuel is a lot more expensive than in say the USA or that they are often faster. Lack of regulation means that pilots can do their own maintenance and stick whatever engine and advanced avionics they want in it
plus parachute, providing it makes the weight. Within around 50NM of my home base there are 8 airfields open to GA traffic, 5 with no landing fees, the other 3 having IAPs and landing fees of less than 10 euros at my last visit. None require PPR or PNR. There are also several fields where PPR is necessary. For the ULM there is even more, a look on Nav3000 shows that not far from each of these fields is on average another 2 fields catering for the STOL capabilites of the ULM. If I was just thinking of starting to fly now, I might look at Aarts Bristell and think wow what a beautiful aircraft and I might read the piece he wrote on this forum and think yeah I would love that freedom and I could have it for about 70 euros an hour. If this cannot bring the young into aviation I don’t know what can.
Not being new to aviation I like the idea of travelling further afield and when I do I like to fly IFR, I actually enjoy the whole process from planning to the trip itself.Sadly I can not do that in a ULM. I can not easily or should I say cheaply put the avionics I would like in the aircraft I would like to fly.Expensive STC’s get in the way. If I want to do things like this it looks like I would have to live in the USA or Norway or perhaps the UK if the LAA gets its way on IFR in permit aircraft. Then there are landing and parking fees.Free in the US at large airports, paid for by a tax on fuel but how much would a litre of fuel need to be in Europe to provide similar facilities here?
More iAP’s to untowered airfields would certainly help, as would the ability to get a clearance by mobile phone before take off. I also think a system like the UK’s GAR would be very useful in France if only to go back and fore the UK. I don’t think the abolishing of French only airfields stands a chance of mobilizing French pilots.As the president of our local club said when I spoke to her is that if you email her, when you arrive at the airfield with your French crib sheet, someone will be there from the club warning everyone else to give you a wide berth.
So it looks like I need to try to mobilize French pilots to campaign for a sort of ULM plus plus plus scenario.
Having re read this I still think the Bristell is a work of Aart and that trip report was inspiring.
gallois wrote:
I have found this debate both interesting and at times rather depressing with a number of you predicting an end to GA as soon as the generation of more mature (agewise) pilots, like myself, falls off their perch.
I am not so pessimistic.
Neither am I. My club has a steady — and for the last few years increasing — inflow of new members in the 20-50 age group.
Great post Gallois.
predicting an end to GA as soon as the generation of more mature (agewise) pilots, like myself, falls off their perch.
Of course that isn’t the case. The age distribution is like the formation of a lenticular cloud… it stays in the same place while the air is passing through it continuously 
There is however an underlying slow increase in the average age and that is a problem.
BTW the UK LAA IFR is real now. It just has a very long queue, and only some types can be approved. Also only some countries allow IFR in homebuilts. France is OK, Germany is not.
When getting older, you rather go on a cruise in the Caribbean, where everything is nice, clean, comfy, safe and trouble free.
I agree with your post LeSving but I think you need to be really really old to go on a cruise Actually that is risky, with a lot of food poisoning cases
Peter wrote:
There is however an underlying slow increase in the average age and that is a problem
Playing devils advocate for a moment, this might just be an indication that pilots are flying to an older age. My dad quit in his early sixties and naturally at a young age I thought that was a wise decision Nowadays I have friends in their seventies who seem to do little else but fly. Eighty seems to me where many people start running into road blocks arising from age (also for motorcycling BTW)
The overall decrease in pilot numbers is an issue but in the US where many of the statistics originate, that estimation is slightly complicated by pilots being able to ‘drop off the map’ via LIght Sport. There is no FAA record as to whether those pilots are active, or not. Basic Med does provide a record.
He he. I have never been on a cruise. It was just an example of the diametrical opposite of going on a trip around the world with little money and no real plan.
For young people it isn’t difficult to “jump into it” and take things as they come. That ability reduces as you get older, for several reasons. One being you gradually think it is more and more silly to do thinks without “proper” planning etc.
In a way traditional (PPL) GA is made by old men for old men, and increasingly so when people start at old age.
A new European PPL knows how to fly 100nm down the road. Much beyond that is a DIFFERENT COUNTRY which is, just about, impossible without getting a lot of instructor signoffs, confidence building, peer group encouragement, all kinds of sh*t like that.
An instructor shall teach students how to fly, period. Not hold their hands and babysit them when they have their licenses. They are perfectly capable of flying all over the place, if that is what they want. The reason they don’t do it (if they don’t) is purely in their heads. Limitations coming with age. one can always find good reasons for not expanding the horizons. That ability grows the older you are, untill the only reason needed is age itself.
But, try to explain to even relatively young “older” men with some “responsibility” that all this babysitting is not good for the community… I have done that a couple of times, and up comes one “safety” card after the other.
this might just be an indication that pilots are flying to an older age
A good point; life expectancy has in recent decades been rising about a year every decade.
I think this has now come to an end in the UK at least, due to lifestyle factors (poor diet mainly – a striking characteristic of the PPL population too). Has there been a similar trend in the USA too?
Yes, US life expectancy in general has stopped climbing. One substantial factor is drug abuse related deaths, including those who abused in the past now paying the price. Rock stars you may note tend to make it to about 60. Also worth noting that regional and social factors play a huge role. I travel to the rural south on business and am blown away by how heavy people have become in that area of the country.
That said, I think US pilots are healthier longer and flying much longer than say 30 or 40 years ago – the US demographic that includes many pilots (i.e. educated, curious, often technical) has become very interested in personal health maintenance, some might say a bit psycho about it
My parents are in their late 80’s and both quite healthy. Its a reminder to me that lifestyle plays a role over decades, and it is an individual responsibility.
Silvaire wrote:
Yes, US life expectancy in general has stopped climbing
One can wonder why they call it “life expectancy”, because it clearly isn’t. People lived to be 100+ years thousands of years ago also, and nothing physiologically has changed to humans the last 10k years at least. Also today, those who life past 100, seldom if ever needed health care. The largest factor affecting “life expectancy” is child deaths (famine, poverty, sickness, poor food, poor health facilities and availability before passing 20-30), and this obviously has nothing to do with your life style when passing 40. Just a digression on the digression early in the morning
Airborne_Again wrote:
There used to be scheduled services to Pulau Tioman (WMBT) both from Kuala Lumpur and Singapore (I actually flew with them myself 15 or so years ago) but surprisingly no more.
Cool, great to see that people in other parts of the world know about Pulau Tioman! It’s a superb spot for snorkelling and diving.
Yes, there were and they were grounded for safety reasons apparently. The fact that someone put Pulau Tioman into the list of 10 scariest airports (https://weburbanist.com/2010/07/11/enjoy-your-fright-the-worlds-10-scariest-airports/) for landings didn’t help. There is now an ad hoc charter service from Subang to Tioman (https://sassb.com.my/index.php/flight/sas-air) in a C206 but not a lot of people are aware of it. Offering flights from Singapore to Tioman sems like an obvious business opportunity…
