Maybe this is what Sandel were referring to when they said the SN3500 won’t display ADS-B traffic – some categories of that stuff.
All very mysterious!
OTOH Avidyne would be stupid to not present ADS-B traffic in a format compatible with the existing ARINC429 format, because to not do so would obsolete all display devices unless upgraded, and far from everybody chucks all their good stuff out. The US 2020 mandate is also very close.
Peter wrote:
The US 2020 mandate is also very close.
But the mandate has nothing to do with ADS-B in.
Not sure of the practical relevance of that, since most pilots want ADSB-IN if they are going to spend $$$ installing ADS-B OUT.
Peter wrote:
Not sure of the practical relevance of that, since most pilots want ADSB-IN if they are going to spend $$$ installing ADS-B OUT.
Yes, but for most it will take time and a lot of money to get integrated ADS-B in. Most people I know are using their ipads for the traffic on ADS-B. Integrating it into all but the most modern Garmin (and maybe Avidyne) navigators or panels seems to be next to impossible.
People are fitting it because they have to comply.
Most people I know are using their ipads for the traffic on ADS-B.
That however is near-useless because you aren’t getting the audio warnings – unless you do extra stuff to integrate the Ipad’s audio into the intercom, which is prob99.99 illegal. Also, bluetooth tends to work only on Mondays…
It is then like a car satnav with speed camera warnings only on the satnav screen i.e. useless.
Integrating it into all but the most modern Garmin (and maybe Avidyne) navigators or panels seems to be next to impossible.
It should not be though. There is no reason why the merged data stream should not be backwards compatible.
People are fitting it because they have to comply.
There should be a pressure for backwards compatibility.
What amazes me is that so few people actually have any answers. In GA, that tends to be indicative of the usual factors which most people don’t want to discuss e.g.
Peter wrote:
That however is near-useless because you aren’t getting the audio warnings – unless you do extra stuff to integrate the Ipad’s audio into the intercom, which is prob99.99 illegal. Also, bluetooth tends to work only on Mondays…
It is not illegal. Some headsets are BT enabled and also some audio panels. So at least on Mondays, it would work. TAS and ADS-B traffic is not a traffic avoidance system like TCAS, it is an aid to the pilot to be able to visually acquire traffic and then avoid it. I do agree with having a panel mount system for my audio as it allows me to keep my head outside or if I am not paying attention to the screen display of traffic, it will certainly get your attention. The main drawback of audio thru BT, is it is more like an entertainment interface and is either muted or subdued during radio com operation.
I don’t personally see much value in ADS-B In without TISB and FISB, which are still US only. I installed a UAT ADS-B Out system in my Bonanza with dual frequency ADS-B In. I did it primarily for the ADS-B traffic with TISB from the ground station. If there wasn’t the TISB offering, it would not be of much use as there will still be a mix of Mode A/C/S transponders without ADS-B Out after 2020. If I had more money available in my retirement, I would have added a TAS system. ADS-B traffic/TISB was a lower cost option than TAS and it satisfied the mandate. The only advantage I see with ADS-B/TISB traffic on my GNS530W is the display of a direction vector. If I upgrade to a GTN750, that would add some more features such as surface traffic display, increasing the number of targets from 8 to 30, and providing more target information such as N number or Call sign and a depiction of relative traffic closing vector.
JasonC wrote:
Yes, but for most it will take time and a lot of money to get integrated ADS-B in. Most people I know are using their ipads for the traffic on ADS-B. Integrating it into all but the most modern Garmin (and maybe Avidyne) navigators or panels seems to be next to impossible.People are fitting it because they have to comply.
That’s right. Most people I know in the US are currently doing nothing in relation to the ADS-B Out mandate and plan to do the minimum possible, or continuing to do nothing if they don’t fly in areas where it’s required. I think a lot of planes, including fairly complex planes, will be used in a more limited fashion starting in 2020. What happens to those planes in 2025 and 2030 with new owners remains to be seen but it isn’t like when Mode C was mandated in the same areas of US airspace and almost everybody upgraded, it’s a different dynamic today. Experimentals will adopt the technology in various ways because it’s easier for them and they are more active, rental and flight school planes will do what they have to do for their business, but I think the reality is that many people, older pilots with older planes, just aren’t going to bother.
Assuming the owner needs ADS-B Out, the reason to wait is that solutions are becoming more minimalistic and less expensive as time goes on, e.g. the GDL 82 and the need is for even less expensive solutions, because the ‘competition’ (i.e. doing nothing) is free. As you point out, ADS-B In is a different issue that people are addressing with more flexible stand-alone portable hardware that can be replaced without hassles as time goes on. The iFly 740 looks interesting to me right now (if an iPad isn’t your thing).
Peter wrote:
What amazes me is that so few people actually have any answers. In GA, that tends to be indicative of the usual factors which most people don’t want to discuss e.g.very few actual installations
most installations not working properly
The impression I get is that people are upgrading as they do other upgrades because the marginal cost is relatively low. Eg if you are putting in 750s the transponder upgrade is easy and can now incorporate things like database concierge and flight plan uploads.
I would assume Europe will eventually follow the US and Australia with a mandate.
JasonC wrote:
I would assume Europe will eventually follow the US and Australia with a mandate.
The two mandates are quite different, US is an airspace mandate and Australia is a flight rules mandate. I suspect that Europe will find a way to pick the most onerous aspects of both options. :)
