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Buying my first plane

At least she has the speed kit announced by a friend of mine who says golf balls need the dents to fly faster so his BE23 and my PA28 are in the same category having had experienced hail in the distant past.

LSPG, LSZC, Switzerland

Neal wrote:

a friend of mine who says golf balls need the dents to fly faster

True, that advantage works for specific shape objects travelling at certain speed/size (e.g. at 100k Reynolds numbers for a sphere)

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/dragsphere.html

A PA28 dented wing at cruise would be sitting far (in 1-5m region) but those hail impacts will surely help with benign stall, icing, comfort in turbulence and improves your primary returns

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
LSPG, LSZC, Switzerland

As a P28R owner:

  • it is ok to buy an airplane and upgrade it if you plan to keep it for very long time. It is a huge joy being able to do upgrades you personally like. If you are going to buy it upgrade and sell it, you will sink your money.
  • Archer is a great first airplane. But you might grow out of it eventually looking into retracts.. so again be careful with the money you put in upgrades. I used to fly warriors which felt fast like rocket back then ;) my Arrow 200 does 130-140ktas but when long legs even that feels slow occasionally.
  • PA28 is a very popular training aircraft. I would personally never buy one used in trainings and or in clubs. If possible find one with low ttaf, used mainly for private flights with very recently overhauled engine or high time engine (in this case you can get it cheap and do the engine yourself later). I am not a fan buying aircraft with mid time engines.. prices are not cheap enough and there is a lot of hours on it with unknown abuse from whomever flew it.
Switzerland

I have been using my Archer II now for one year and some 50 h. It is now undergoing the annual, ARC, minor upgrades and a new upholstery.
Being a airplane owner and having taken friends on a ride who have only rented I am now in the question of stepping up to a more capable plane which would fit our needs of touring Europe long range at good speeds and has a good W&B and is found at an acceptable price on the used market. And as my current hangar is only suited for low wing AC we evaluated those planes and ended up with a TB-20. Hmm sounds like we did the same math Peter did some 15 years ago. But what else is there to be found on the market for around 100k € with good endurance and moderate speed?
I love flying my Archer II and I appreciate her, but if I would run into a TB-20 in good conditions I’d say I couldn’t resist.

LSPG, LSZC, Switzerland

From a „rational“ point of view, the TB20 is a good choice.

If you liked the Archer but still would like to step up, consider a Turbo Arrow. Flying behind a Continental 6-cylinder engine is just nice. Flying in style. Plus, the turbo will come in handy if you fly in / over the mountains a lot.

Talking about style, also consider an old Bonanza. But you should be a bit mx-savvy for such airplane. Plus, if range is important for you, check the fuel capacity of each individual aircraft you look at.

Finally, if you are not interested in IFR, the field opens up and might also consider some more exotic types, like for example the Robin Safari, which has 10 hour of endurance.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 14 May 20:11
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I looked at the Arrow but if an Arrow it must be an III and not a IV with the T-tail due to short field operations. What is the difference of maintenance of a O-360 compared to an IO-540? Is it just about the 2 pistons more compared to the 4 piston O-360 and thus 50% more maintenance or is it more of a story?

LSPG, LSZC, Switzerland

Yes, definitely, on Arrows, you should only consider IIIs. Or the post 1988 ones (which, contrary to popular belief, are not IIIs, but just „Arrow“s).

Btw, are you looking for HB-reg or other?

Last Edited by boscomantico at 14 May 20:41
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Neal wrote:

But what else is there to be found on the market for around 100k € with good endurance and moderate speed?

You may find good Mooney’s on that budget? I flew M20J & Archer2, doing +40kts more than the Archer on same GPH plus going to same places tarmac/grass is priceless, drawback is limited useful load/range vs an Arrow3 or TB20

Also if you want extra 2 cylinders? look at M20K 252, which gives +185kts on +FL150 on +12GPH but you will still be short on useful loads…

PS: I would have flown same trips on Archer2 or M20J, it would not have made no difference to mission capability
Except logging more hours in Archer2 by flying low & slow, Mrs seems to appreciate the Mooney…

Last Edited by Ibra at 14 May 21:18
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I looked at the Arrow but if an Arrow it must be an III and not a IV with the T-tail due to short field operations

I beg you to look again . . .
I have had a Turbo Arrow IV for 10 years and have had no problems in short-field landings. I have been using it in (and out!) of Heligoland – 341 metres – 3 up with no problems.
One of the great things about an Arrow IV is that they have such an (unwarranted) reputation, in my opinion, that you can often buy them for £30K less than their rivals.
They are a great touring machine: Long distance; Good economy (especially with GAMIjectors) @ 32 lph; and short field ability. And incidentally, the T-tail makes the cruise ultra smooth: And that is 98% of your flying.

Rochester, UK, United Kingdom
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