Max budget probably around 200-225k gbp all in for a plane with 0 hassle
Be very cautious about thinking this way. It can lead to a lot of frustration. It’s the correct thing to aim for, but very easy for things to change and that to not be the case.
Aircraft ownership comes with huge benefits, but sometimes the effort feels unbalanced at times.
I do think your approach is correct. One thing I would try to do is try to have a sum available to throw at your new toy in its1st year for anything that takes a little time to surface.
Not everything will be evidently not 100%, or satisfactory, during the flight test or the 1st few flights.
Yes agreed. I’d like to have it in best possible shape. I mean that’s probably one of the two main reasons I’d like to buy my own aircraft (and not share it!).
Im really very lucky to have been introduced to a top engineer in Shoreham that knows about everything really and i have insisted when making offers that a flight test with the engineer to test the avionics is a requirement.
That’s great, and “cute”, however, it will tell you nothing about e.g. a long ago “repair” where the wrong type of rivets were used actually rendering the aircraft un-airworthy. A flight is of course part of the process, and making sure installed equipment works is too, it’s just not very representative for the actual state an aircraft is in.
Yes agreed. I’d like to have it in best possible shape. I mean that’s probably one of the two main reasons I’d like to buy my own aircraft (and not share it!).
The idea of buying a 4 seater for touring with friends will most probably not come to fruition.
The idea of buying 20+ year old airframes to have something in tip-top shape will also be difficult to realize, unless you find a unicorn.
Even more so trying to makeover a TB20. The cost will be eye-watering (new parts) or you’ll have a full time job sourcing used parts.
If you’re not set on TKS, maybe look at an early 2000’s DA40 for 150k and put new avionics in?
Rami1988 wrote:
Yes agreed. I’d like to have it in best possible shape. I mean that’s probably one of the two main reasons I’d like to buy my own aircraft (and not share it!).
Sorry to rain on your parade here, but this is simply not realistic, even less so in a relatively small market like the UK. There just is no used 4 seat SEP out there that ticks all your boxes, at the price you’re willing to pay. If you want to have a – relatively – clear idea of budget, I’d say find a plane that has all the panel upgrades you want, but a run-out engine. Why? Because engine overhaul costs are pretty well known and fixed within a reasonable margin (lead times, sadly, are not). OTOH a panel upgrade is a can of worms with NO defined cost. I have managed both in our club and the engine is the least of your problems when upgrading.
As for the prebuy – it is essential that the A/P performing it is familiar with the type. I don’t know how common the TB series is in the UK (over here they are an exotic type), but every type has it’s hidden gotchas. Just because someone is a great A/P working on Cessnas, doesn’t make him a great source for TBs. This isn’t necessarily a hardware issue, it’s equally important to know what to look for in the logs.
Agreed little chance to get everything – the idea is to have a lost of priorities etc. The most important objective for me from this purchase is to build experience and knowledge in a plane that is a bit more complex, so I can slowly move up the ladder to better planes. When I say best possible I am also realistic. Its a relative thing. I’ve seen the state of most rented aircraft and a lot are borderline airworthy. So, I’d like something in good shape I don’t think that’s much to ask. Not expecting like new here.. and I definitely don’t think I’ll be using it for touring with friends mainly. I mean I have 100 hours – need a LOT more experience and ratings before I can enjoy an aircraft like many of you do. Unfortunately there’s no other way than gaining the experience.
The other main reason for buying my own plane is availability. The weather sucks in the UK so when it is good I’d like to he able to fly all day if I wanted to! Not possible renting from clubs..
So as a summary it’s a step up more.complex.aircraft to build hours gain experience and gradually expand the “touring” over time.
I disagree regarding the engine. I think it’s the most important thing. I mean I don’t even have an instrument rating yet – so having all the avionics upgrades might not be even usable for me in the near future. For me engine is the number one priority. I really rather not have to overhaul an engine up front that’s like at least 4 months all in, and then I run the highest engine failure risk (statistically its right after the overhaul).
1) engine
2) avionics
3] airframe
That’s kind of where my priorities are at.. TKS is nice as it’s a safety tool that can also help me gain more experience. But won’t be planning to fly into ice at all.
I bought my TB20 with about 120hrs TT. It was a great decision to get myself out of the rental scene, and out of the constant search for a syndicate which is functioning properly.
Now, 22 years later, I am at 3000hrs TT.
So you won’t regret the decision.
Just don’t get yourself a lemon, especially if you are going to spend your whole budget on it 
GA has a lot of good people, a lot of outright crooks, and everything in between.
Avionics is over-rated. People spend HUGE sums on it. Even more so when the wx is crap so they aren’t flying and the money is burning a hole in their pocket I see this everywhere. In the meantime I fly everywhere with a KLN94+KMD550. Not even a 1999 GNS430. Ask yourself how this is possible, and don’t be afraid to face the facts. But there is one proviso: the stuff has to work!
Try to get a TB20GT with prop TKS. Many GTs have prop TKS.
With respect to the last 2 posters, and they might well be accurate, l put off getting my PPL for many many years because of the many negative comments about cost, instructors, owning a plane etc.etc.
A good TB20 is an excellent aircraft and will cover most of the flying you are likely to do, whether that is VFR or IFR or a mix.
Other than Jodels the only other aircraft I have owned and can usually be bought at your budget or below and have all the equipment you are likely to want are twin engined aircraft.
A good pre buy is still essential but you will have good negotiating power when it comes to reducing price to fix any problems.
You will of course have to get your MEP qualification but with an experienced instructor that is not hard.
The IR you can do in an SEP and then take the further test so you have the SEIR and the MEIR.
Running costs are in many cases the same as a high powered proper 4 seater touring SEP. Eg Fuel flow on a light twin (ie those under 2 tonnes) runs from around 70l per hour to 80l per hour if operated in the same manner as SEPs like the SR22.
Maintenance is more expensive in that you have 2 engines to change the oil on ( but you can get 2 low time engines for your budget so they shouldn’t need overhaul for some years). In many cases the SEP will .have one large engine whereas the under 2 tonne twin will have 2 smaller engines so that the cost of overhauling the 2 small engines is not 2 times the overhaul of one large engine. You also have 2 props to overhaul at around €6000 or €2000 per year compared to €1000 p.a. on an equivalent SEP. The other major cost difference is in the heating system. The Janitrol on most of my twins have been very efficient in keeping me and my passengers warm, but I would, on average, say it cost me between €100 and €200 p.a. in maintenance.
I put this forward as part of the debate as many on here will say why you should not buy a light twin. But it seems to me that you are looking at a particular part of the SEP market. It’s the same part of the market in which a light twin fits neatly.
You have a rough idea of your budget but like all of us you don’t want to pay more than you have to in a fluctuating or possibly descending market.
So I am suggesting that if you see a TB20 that you might be interested in, compare it with a light twin in terms of what you are going to get for your money. In that way when you find the TB20 you want you will instinctively know whether or not it is worth the asking price.
Standing by for the flak.🙂🙂🙃
Twins thread (one of several).
