My 2 pence..
I had a Robin Dr400 for 16 years,
no autopilot and no chance of fitting one.
Did my IMC rating in it.
1. I found the Robin a little more sensitive in pitch than other types and this can be a bit of a faff to trim to the accuracy that helps reduce your worload in IMC and the aircraft is slightly more easily upset by turbulence than some types.
In ours, despite the obvoius wing tip dihedral it would never relevel the wing by itself so again all the handflying is a little more work.
I was happy with that, but feel its an important point.
2. Due to the amazing visability with that large canopy, it’s actually much more intimidating for passengers unless they are completely happy IMC.
Compared to the relative cocoon feeling of say a cessna 172 or PA28, theres a lot of exposure to remind you that when you’re in it, you’re in it.
Again as PIC i was happy with that, and the wife wasn’t bad with it either but again I think worth mentioning.
I have had one DR400 or another since the early 80’s and by the 90’s had a 180 with an avionic package I was happy with for IFR flying.
The aircraft is easy to fly and I don’t find the lack of autopilot to have been a problem, may be this was because my late wife had a PPL/IMC / NIGHT. So when things needed re-organisation in the air a fully coupled auto flight system was available. However the aircraft will fly we’ll enough to using your knees to get both hands free for cockpit tasks if you are on your own.
The largest consumer of pilot attention as the IFR approved GPS, if you are ahead of the thing it reduces the workload considerably but if you are a little behind the unit when at the last moment ATC give you a runway change things then can go very badly. It very quickly became clear that without a Ground simulator for the GPS we could never become proficient enough to fly approaches so I built a rig to run the KLN89B on the bench for training.
Things are well underway for the new avionic fit and I am already getting to grips with the GTN650 thanks to Garmins excellent iPad training app. I will have to accept my new partner will never become a fully coupled auto flight device but have high hopes of ALT & HDG hold for short periods.
Passenger comfort seems to be OK but having never been in the back seat I had not realised how little can be seen forwards , following an ILS to the very limits b( both cloud base & RVR )a rear seat passenger remarked that they saw nothing until a second or before touch down and then only made sense of the situation as we rolled along the runway.
In short the DR400 is an excellent IFR platform that will do anything a PA28 of similar power will do but off a runway 30% shorter and 10-15 KTS faster in the cruise. So without the cost of retractable gear and a CS prop you get almost PA28R performance , the DR500 almatches the PA28R performance with greater comfort than the DR400, the DR 500 also has a greater range of auto flight options.
@ DavidH thanks for sharing, it shows that DR500 aircraft is more than capable and I am bit jealous of the nice avionic fit!
GA_Pete wrote:
2. Due to the amazing visability with that large canopy, it’s actually much more intimidating for passengers unless they are completely happy IMC.
Thanks for mentioning that on the pax side, I got that scary 360 canopy feel from gliders already, but only for 5 minutes tough 
For the record: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly…
Having enthusiastically endorsed the DR401, owned it and flown it for 2.5 years I thought I should now add a few notes to my original views.
The Good:
Unlike so many aircraft it absolutely lives up to all the performance claims 100% – including the fuel economy (22l/hour avgas) and the basic maintenance regime – making it an incredibly versatile, economical (in theory) and easy machine to fly – the one-lever operation and the ability to just cut the power for descent without managing engine at all was a joy and I flew hundreds of very happy hours, getting as far as Friedrichshafen, Ibiza, Corsica, Elba – places I could never have managed in a club aircraft.
Power was great – fast climb up to and exceeding 1000ft/min which keeps going right until you run out of oxygen. Great going-places speed typically around 130kts.
The cabin comfort was fine, never too hot or too cold in the air, spacious in the front, acceptable in the back – the all round visibility superb and the load, enabled routine carriage of four adults and the range superb: Spain in a single hop was perfectly achievable.
Handling – once I got used to the joystick instead of a control wheel – the plane became like wearing it instead of flying it – landings generally very flattering. Subjectively bumpier on a hot day or in IMC due to lightness (compared to a TB20) but much smoother than some of the really light alternatives out there.
The Bad:
The Engine: The FADEC for the Centurion JETA1 is a sensitive beast. If you don’t hold the key long enough when you start up, or in various other conditions where the power is a bit low or fluctuates because of a dodgy diode, wire or circuit breaker you get a FADEC warning light- which must be cleared by an engineer.
Imagine this happens when you’re on the ground in France in August – you could (and I did) find yourself having to fly an engineer from the UK to reset the warning.
Even if it happens at your home base, if there is no Centurion certified engineer available you are in for a costly and long wait while you get one there, the plane can’t be flown with the light on. And when they come, they may need a part, even if it’s just a £100 fix you are in for days or weeks on the ground and a bill running into four figures. THIS IS EQUALLY TRUE OF THE DA40/42 or the Tecnam or indeed anything with this super efficient engine – my advice is don’t get a plane with this engine unless your home base has an engineer who can and is willing to work on it. (I even bought the gadget that allows you to send the data to Centurion to diagnose the fault, but even if it turns out to be nothing serious you need an engineer to reset it).
Furthermore, the casting on this engine has a common known fault where the tapping hole leaks coolant – there is a quick and easy fix for this (basically hammering in a small wedge supplied under warranty by Centurion) but still, imagine you were banging around in IMC over the channel just as the coolant warning light came on… your overseas trip would be cancelled and you’d face an anxious return to base and another period AOG while the fix was applied. (Yes that’s what happened).
The radiator/cooler: Apparently the people who made the coolers went bust, and the latest batch are prone to springing minor leaks. I have not heard of a single catastrophic failure and mine was replaced under warranty but they go with frustrating frequency. There is a new design on the way, but if you buy a current DR401 it seems you can expect to have the radiator replaced from time to time – with all the attendant inconvenience/cost (though the part itself will be supplied under warranty – in my case the intercooler bracket got snapped during the replacement and this I had to pay for). The outfit in France I sold my DR401 to are fine with this as they operate five DR401s and keep two coolers in the workshop so they can just swap them out as they go – mine is on its third already.
The ugly
Make no mistake, the family that run Robin are the most lovely, charming and committed people you could hope to meet in aviation, and the factory is full of talented craftsmen who take a real pride in their product.
But it seems the admin in the parts/accounts department leaves a lot to be desired. What is amazing is that they still support every Robin ever made and will manufacture whatever part you need. But what is frustrating is that they have a peculiar system even for in-stock parts where they have to raise multiple invoices – as far as I can tell, one for parts and then another once packed for shipping. Since they require payment before dispatch getting a part to arrive in the UK can take some time and is a frustrating process. Added to which my CAMO found the process of invoicing and warranty claims very opaque leading to months-long delays to invoices for repair work and warranty claims.
Despite that on one occasion where I needed a part welded I, with some help from the UK dealer, managed to communicate directly with the parts guy in France (also using Google translate) – I overpayed in advance for shipping to avoid the two-invoice conundrum and they turned it around really quickly – the people are very willing and helpful, only the system needs streamlining. Rumours that there no is support for parts during the August closure are untrue. Though it is the case that the Factory gets very busy in July and is closed most of August.
I should say that I found the UK dealers Mistral a straightforward joy to deal with and very efficient.
In summary:
So on balance – how was the experience of buying and owning a DR401
Like everything in aviation it had its highs and lows. Everybody tells me that owning any plane other than the mass-produced and venerable Cessnas and Pipers makes you a “beta tester” since there simply aren’t thousands in circulation for every tiny fault to have manifested. In my case I was lucky in year one, suffering no unscheduled maintenance, then unlucky in year two onwards, suffering constant gremlins.
I would repeat my advice that you make sure, before specifying the Centurion CDI155, or any FADEC engine, to be crystal clear that there are engineers at your home base who can and will work on it in a timely manner – you don’t want to spend your Summers phoning around begging unwilling people to get your pride-and-joy back in the air.
My experience is: Don’t expect that buying a new plane means you can avoid the gremlins associated with plane ownership – it seems to be the same as classic car ownership – there will always be a “list” that needs getting to, and the more electronic the plane, the less you can fly with failed components (ie: the more AOG time – you will not want to risk your license, insurance, and engine warranty by flying with computer-monitored warning lights, even if you are pretty sure they need not ground the plane). I was disappointed by this, I admit I perhaps naively thought if you spent hundreds of thousands on something “new” it should “just work” – but nobody who knows anything about planes agrees with me!
Other than that, the plane is a beauty and lives up to all its promise – my plan was to operate it in a small group of friends, what with one thing and another I found myself flying it and running it almost alone so I have sold it and bought a half-share in another friend’s plane.
Despite the frustrations I don’t regret it – especially as a low hours pilot when I bought it, it was so easy and reassuring to fly that I spread my wings much further than I would otherwise have dared. A few hundred hours later I’m ready for all the extra levers and workload of a more complex retractable, but it was my lovely easy DR401 that got me there.
Thank you Neal for posting such a brilliant and useful post. I do wish everyone who owns or has owned a plane did this, but of course most won’t
It was indeed sad to see your Robin sitting in “my” hangar for months, due to one thing or another. A starter motor not going round, took months, I think…
As you say, one needs a local engineer. To that I would add that one needs an engineer willing to do stuff off the books, and I bet many people “out in the jungle” of the aeroclub scene in France where most Robins live do exactly that.
Like me in 2002, you did the right thing buying a new plane at, or nearly at, the start of your flying career. It makes such a difference. The ownership learning curve is steep…
The ownership learning curve is steep…
So true @Peter and the owner’s pockets must be deep!
For the record, the starter problem was assumed by the CAMO to be the starter motor which is a not uncommon problem and fairly cheap to replace – so it was replaced by a local outfit, but it still didn’t start – they found eventually a crimp had failed and a wire dropped off – the (very expensive) voltage regulator was red hot – in my frustration I said “then replace that” – duly replaced and the problem persisted until the wiring loom was replaced, not until the second attempt since the first one despatched was the wrong one – altogether months AOG and thousands spent for what turned out to be probably just a wiring fault. I didn’t mention it above as this wasn’t really a “Robin” issue but a maintenance one – it could have been any plane.
I would think that the electrical path to the starter motor is very simple – due to the heavy current involved. It is typically something like
battery → ground power relay → master relay → starter relay → starter motor
and you just need a voltmeter to trace where the problem lies.
That’s unless the Robin doesn’t use the normal key switch for starting, and the “computer” turns on the starter relay. Then one will find the source immediately by putting a voltmeter on the starter relay coil.
You are right about deep pockets, although buying new alleviates that one, by having a warranty. I think the warranty bill on mine was best part of 100k
I don’t know the exact rule of it but:
I have flown a lot DA42 in the early of their Centurion engine 2.0. We have in the plane a small laptop and the connector to delog the engine fault.
I always send it to our maintenance shop and depending on fault (usually cam sensor fault) we reset the fault ourself…
I got one time a faulty FADEC (engine stop on ECU test) that needed our guys to bring us a other FADEC
Thanks beta tester Neal, it really is an amazing summary. You normally only hear hagiographies or rants, so a balanced write up is invaluable. Our club did try the factory demonstrator in 2008, but there was no mention from the sales person about resetting the electronics or anything like this
NealCS wrote:
What is amazing is that they still support every Robin ever made and will manufacture whatever part you need.
I wish… We’ve been trying to get a replacement fuel sender for our DR250 for four years.
