Controlled airspace where VFR should be allowed but isn't

Frans wrote:

Milano cleared me twice VFR into their class A TMA. Wrong world.

Well, they are Italians. Everything is a little more relaxed. I like that ;-)

Frans wrote:

Be careful to speak out loud about microlights. The Swiss seem to run after offenders without entry permits. As long as you have one, you’ll be fine though.

It’s actually not too bad. It costs 260 SFR per year, but the granted flying times (4 individual weeks plus 30 individual days) should be sufficient for most foreign microlights. Still a very bad situation for domestic ULM pilots.

Thomas_R wrote:

I crossed Zürich TMA 8 today from WIL to ALINE. Requested FL95, got FL90.

Congrats, never got that approved before. It’s always a “Sorry, not possible, say intentions.” for me. Meanwhile, Milano cleared me twice VFR into their class A TMA. Wrong world.

Thomas_R wrote:

And just to counter arguments like “Performing an IFR pickup later is no real VFR”, I did it in a microlight today. It does not get any more VFR than this. Now what?

Be careful to speak out loud about microlights. The Swiss seem to run after offenders without entry permits. As long as you have one, you’ll be fine though.

Thomas_R wrote:

I’m sorry, but I didn’t keep a logbook for the VFR crossing inquisition . Last time was this Monday en route from LSZS to EDSB. We crossed Zürich TMA sectors 11 and 13 on a vector from Walensee to VEDOK at FL90 (for IFR pickup at VEDOK). Clearance was relayed by Zürich Information.

To get back to this: As I’m learning a little bit (within my limits), I now do keep a logbook for the VFR crossing inquisition 🙃

I crossed Zürich TMA 8 today from WIL to ALINE. Requested FL95, got FL90. Transferred by Zürich Information to Approach, no problems at all, even though the general wind direction was from the East and Zürich had inbounds from the West.

And just to counter arguments like “Performing an IFR pickup later is no real VFR”, I did it in a microlight today. It does not get any more VFR than this. Now what?

hazek wrote:

you’ve now concocted this theory that I’m ATCO

I’ve not said anything about you being an ATCO. However, the combination of your apparent knowledge and the confidence with which you write suggests you have a lot more experience in aviation beyond having a “fairly new PPL”.

I can’t answer that unless you give me the specific route and airport.

while flying at a reasonable alt in a stable fashion will get you approved through everything

Let me give a better advice: while flying VFR at FL100-FL120 and refusing to descend will get you approved through every Delta & Charlie in Europe except Alpha

Haha you guys are real funny. I wont argue with you about this, it’s not what I came to this forum for.

But just to share what a newcomer such as myself sees in your comments and actions is that it’s clear you wouldn’t talk to me like an adult.. you’ve now concocted this theory that I’m ATCO which I’m not and are making statements which could be used for defense which I find really cute.. and that’s not just because in the video you mention the point at which you stop editing out time. I went and checked the airspace where you were, you were approaching TRA32, or as the Swiss call it LSR32 which appears got activated. This zone has limits of 2000AGL or FL130 lower and FL150 upper. So yes while over peaks there such as Mönch you would have been in the clear the terrain around there was certainly lower than your alt -2000’ putting you inside the R airspace had you continued in the same direction.

So yea, you behaved extremely unprofessionally and with behavior like that you’re hurting the rest of us. Any reasonable person would say the same.

But this might just be because I learned to fly in Luxembourg, where every flight starts at a controlled airport in a CTR, and most flights continue in our local class D TMA into which we get cleared almost without exception. Frankly I don’t know of any cases in the last 2 years where clearance was denied. And what is apparent is that the controllers don’t care about VFR in the sense that it doesn’t bother them at all since they’re not responsible for it in class D. What they care about is that you’re not in the way and you’re talking to them and they’ll accommodate pretty much any request as long as it doesn’t interfere with traffic that they are in fact responsible for. Speaking to some of them this perception was pretty much confirmed as correct.

But you do you and see where it gets ya. My limited experience so far has been nothing but positive. And I suspect this will continue. Filing a flight plan is important, calling the responsible ARO to check it was distributed to all relevant ATC is also, and then making sure you know the frequency to request clearance on and doing so well in advance using standard phraseology while flying at a reasonable alt in a stable fashion will get you approved through everything but the most congested CAS. But again you do you, but I really wish for the sake of all of us you wouldn’t do what you did in that video ever again.