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Expansion of UK controlled airspace

That list is a joke, surely? Lydd?? The Scilly Isles???

IAPs without ATC

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Germany allows IAPs without ATC and in Class G with an INFO frequency. Airport and some surrounding Class G airspace are designated an RMZ which at least allows airspace users to be in contact with each other, and also on the same frequency. Example: EDWE (Emden)

EGTF, EGLK, United Kingdom

A little less speed reading, please, guys.

EGKB Biggin Hill

I’ll try again in less convoluted language.

Take an airfield with IAPs outside controlled airspace. Cambridge or Inverness, for example.

By UK ANO, to have an IAP, it must have ATC.

By Part ATS, to have ATC it must have controlled airspace.

Therefore, if neither law is changed, to have an IAP in the UK requires controlled airspace.

So, which law will change?

Not Part ATS, because there is no other EASA state with the same requirement in it’s own legislation, and the UK loses its vote in March.

The ANO only if the DfT, CAA, commercial operators and unions agree, which history says is unlikely.

Of course a solution will be found, but there seems remarkably little energy behind finding that solution.

EGKB Biggin Hill

the UK loses its vote in March

It also then ditches the obligation to follow the EU

Commercial operators don’t want to pay for ATC, any more than anybody else.

The unions care only for airline pilot and ATC jobs. They have little power in small airfields.

And NATS would be obliged to pay for ATC services for the enroute CAS to join all this up, and at some £1M per H24 radar desk… This is the reason why the UK is mostly Class G, has almost no Class E, why we have the IMC Rating / IR(R)…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

QuoteIt also then ditches the obligation to follow the EU

But not EASA

Last Edited by Timothy at 25 Nov 17:42
EGKB Biggin Hill

I expect we would just apply derogations as required, just like we have with SERA etc It just means the regulatory picture gets ever more confused.

Personally I suspect GNSS approaches will eventually drive a softening of the IAP v full ATC issue, if we hadn’t had brexit I think the political fight to get that moving might have had enough focus to properly explode the issues. I also think we will see creeping TMZ/RMZ usage which will neatly drive electronic conspicuity usage to where it needs to be.

Now retired from forums best wishes

Mooney_Driver wrote:

I don’t think you are. Switzerland requires ATC for IAP’s as well as class D. So does Germany if I am not totally mistaken. And Austria and some others.
As wbardorf wrote, it is permitted in Germany.

Actually, I can’t think of any country in Europe other than France where there is IFR in class G and approaches without ATC.

Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland…

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The problem is it will make UK airspace an even worse minefield in terms of non-joint airspaces. With more fiefdoms strongly guarded.
So all controlled airfields in EASA land will eventually get CAS. Good to know, it concerns many airports around Paris.

LFOU, France

I fly VFR from Inverness, and unlike most of the GA VFR guys, I’m in favour of Class D.
There’s a lot of fast IFR GA, in addition to the airlines.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom
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