Peter, if you got anything other than a Basic service, it wasn’t from Scottish Information (119.875).
I like the Scottish Info basic service. They are super helpful – arranging DA crossings etc, and they usually have the METAR for my home airfield ready for me to copy before I ask.
London Info is sometimes a bit too cluttered with non-essential chatter – such as a Ryanair captain asking for horse-racing results or EasyJet crew asking for destination WX.
Timothy wrote:
Please could someone tell me, in simple words, why they ever ask for a Basic Service
Because Timothy Traffic Service is very often refused, especially when you need it most in times of poor vis. Basic is a lot better than nothing because:
You know you are on the right radio and the right channel
You know the volume isn’t turned down (!)
You have some awareness of other traffic by listening to them
You might get collision avoidance
There’s someone to ask ’anything’s seen’ at your destination or elsewhere.
Etc..
Old UK retail sign: “Please don’t ask for credit traffic because refusal often offends”.
Based on my few flights to Scotland, I believe that the reason for difference in service between London Info and Scottish Info is that Scottish Info is provided by radar-equipped units, see EG_ENR_6_2_0_2_en_2016_12_08_pdf.
With the exception of areas A,G and A,H where radar-based service is available only above FL55 (other areas from SFC), FIS is provided by Scottish Control (on the same frequency although with callsign Scottish Information). As a result I have so far been able to request Traffic and Deconfliction Service OCAS without any issues.
Can someone based in Scotland confirm that?
Departing EGPE Inverness, Tower tell me to contact Radar. I do so, and if I don’t ask for a Basic Service, Radar will tell me I’m getting a Basic Service.
If I contact Scottish Information, it’s the same.
Less hassle for the “Controller” to say “requesting Basic Service” on contact or passing details.
I usually get traffic information with the basic service, especially from Inverness Radar.
Often I fly monitoring Scottish without talking to them, as I’m too low to hear the ground messages. I broadcast my position on Safetycom 135.480, and monitor it. Sometimes quite a lot of traffic on it.
The feature to monitor two frequencies on one radio is great.
PS Scottish often has difficulty understanding what I’m doing, as I’m flying around in the hills with a planned destination but not on a preplanned or direct course. And squawk changes take my eyes inside for too long.
On sunny days, just don’t bother asking traffic service from LARS, even so most of it is irrelevant or not in frequency
On marginal days, I recall many times getting refused traffic service OCAS by LARS due to xyz while descending through broken layers still frequency was a bit busy, I only need that for 3min, so I just transmitted position reports to them while on basic service (actually to other traffic) and even I got another guy on opposite radial calling me back, I think everybody got the message…
I don’t see the need for TS/DS on busy sunny days, next time you hear a pilot calling for it just reply keep your head outside and hope for the best :)
On medium days, “a cloud frequency” may do do better than what you would get OCAS from LARS on traffic due to their limited ressources, however, on difficult days you do get a superior service from LARS and credit should be given
So to get to Timothy point you need EC, 121.5, Cloud Frequency and FMC and all class G flying gets sorted between pilots in all weather conditions !
Please could someone tell me, in simple words, why they ever ask for a Basic Service
Probably because:
- An instructor taught them to
- An instructor did not fully understand the 4 types of FIS services used in the UK only, and
- ATC once advised a pilot to do this so they could catch and resolve infringements quicker while not having to provide traffic information
It’s a little silly because I actually would like ATC to tell me about real traffic much more so than about airspace boundaries. And that’s why if I don’t want a TS for any reason, then I monitor various frequencies and optionally file a flight plan so that someone has my details.
I don’t see the need for TS/DS on busy sunny days, next time you hear a pilot calling for it just reply keep your head outside and hope for the best :)
This report: https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4050593/see_and_avoid_report_print.pdf local copy concludes:
The see-and-avoid principle in the absence of traffic alerts is subject to serious limitations. It is likely that the historically small number of mid-air collisions has been in a large part due to low traffic density and chance as much as the successful operation of see-and-avoid.
So on a busy sunny day:
- If I’m equipped with a traffic information display making use of ADSB-In etc., I would use that.
- I would also use a Traffic Service where available.
@Jacko wrote:
Peter, if you got anything other than a Basic service, it wasn’t from Scottish Information (119.875).
Today we got traffic service on this frequency and then we were asked to climb FL070 and got conflicting service. Everything smooth and relaxed.
A conflicting service? Yikes! :-)
I would say most instructors get their students to ask for a basic service as a learning excecise as it makes them practice their RT. Also when going solo I would like to think it gives a watchful eye over them when then turn onto a heading of 030 when they should be in a heading of 330.
Of course what would be nice if being on a basic service gave some sort of protection if one infringes as should a FMC. Say a warning letter and a learning point rather than off to GASCO but sadly that appears not to be the case.
