Just file and fly the whole SID? DVR departure from Calais & LYD departure from LeTouquet should get you the shortest water crossings and handover to London Control
If you are coming from far away and happy to fly uncontrolled just let Lille West know, you will get a short water crossing and get handed over to London Info which is not bad if flying to Shoreham bellow controlled airspace but a fiasco if going to London and planning to rejoin airspace
On the way back there are no airways/routes UK to France with short crossing Dover/CapGrisNez as most ATS routes there are “one way”, if you don’t like the “direct XIDIL by London” dog leg just ask to exit UK airspace by descent and fly straight to Calais before calling to Lille West, note that Class Echo airspace in NW is everywhere except on the maps, you should get clearance before
I am talking about flying in FL80-FL120 band, if you fly above FL120-FL180 you should not have any problem getting a direct routing as generally there is not a single traffic there…
arj1 wrote:
@ibra, do you know why there are no longer DCTs allowed in that area (up to FL195)? The restriction give is LFFF1A, but I could not find anywhere what it means.
Drones I am told, this document is helpful in figuring stuff out, of course it’s not that clear either ;-) https://www.dircam.dsae.defense.gouv.fr/images/Stories/Doc/MIAM_OACI/MIAM_OACI_ENR%205.1.pdf
No, my question was mostly about the route from DVR to RINTI etc, and it is not on that list…
Where would I normally find what “LFFF1A” means? Could not find it on RAD page of Eurocontrol.
Well, LFFF is the Paris FIR, I assume 1A is a subdivision of that region, though I am not sure.
just found this page, maybe you can ask them and let us know ;-) https://www.ivao.fr/en/pages/lfff
and then when I looked for LFFF 1A (rather than attached) found this in the AIP – does that help? here
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Well, LFFF is the Paris FIR, I assume 1A is a subdivision of that region, though I am not sure.
just found this page, maybe you can ask them and let us know ;-) https://www.ivao.fr/en/pages/lfffand then when I looked for LFFF 1A (rather than attached) found this in the AIP – does that help? https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/pub/media/store/documents/file/l/f/lf_sup_2021_075_en.pdf
No, sorry, not there either… Weird!
Ibra wrote:
Just file and fly the whole SID? DVR departure from Calais & LYD departure from LeTouquet should get you the shortest water crossings and handover to London Control
Sorry I didn’t specify I’m coming from EHRD. Specifying to minimise water overflight gives me KOK-KONAN-TEVMO, but at FL040, which I can validate also up to FL060. Ideally I’d like the shortest over water route, as close to FL100 as possible, and IFR. Seems I have to sacrifice at least one of those.
No idea how Belgian handle it 
At FL70-FL100,
- From France, you can file what you wish just let Lille ATC know that you want a direct crossing, there is zero reason why they would say no as they manage the whole sector including every airport in that corner, then above FL80 you will be handed to London ATC
- From UK, you may have to stay bellow airspace or leave it at FL70 if London ATC route you away from shortest crossing (usually because of Calais & LeTouquet & Lydd departures 
), then call Lille ATC on the French side
At +FL120, you would get a huge gliding range, maybe just 5min of cruise where you will risk to get wet
That LOA is an astonishing find, @LFHNflightstudent. I wish the UK published their (mostly bizzare and sometimes no doubt politically explosive) ones. I’d love to see the one between Southampton and Bournemouth, for example
Re routings between UK and France, see this. However, one needs to be “practical” about this; it is OK if going to/from say Shoreham EGKA. You can’t just turn up anywhere along the UK coast, from the mainland, FL150, and expect to get a decent route – even if you are in CAS. They will probably sort it out, somehow…
I would fly below the base of CAS but of course one can’t do that in icing conditions, or if you have a nervous passenger who is scared of IMC. Same issues here. Basically the UK airspace system is broken, but not for the reasons most think. It is broken because
In CAS, the UK system works ok, but there is a lot of Class G and often to high levels. In much of the UK there is G up to FL200, and your iFR flight plan and clearance are incinerated (practically speaking; definitely the clearance is) the moment you exit CAS and go into G.
Peter wrote:
That LOA is an astonishing find
The fact that a French internal LOA is written in English should raise your suspicion… The LOA is for the IVAO – International Virtual Aviation Organization – an online flight simulation network with actual ATC.
That LOA may or may not relate to the actual LOA between LFFF and LFRR FIRs.
