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VFR Take-off at EDMS today ...

Or try to walk 30 feet to your plane in Gloucester without a stupid vest ;-)

I don’t think Gloucester is a very good example. I’m based there and I haven’t worn a vest (nor been asked to) in at least the last 5 years.

There are some airfields that get bothered about hi-vis, but EGBJ isn’t one of them. [/drift]

EGBJ / Gloucestershire

EDMS airport was covered with a thick layer of fog with a ceiling of less than 100 ft, the temperature fell to -3 C and the there was less than 1 km visibility

Not addressing the legalities, but one issue that hasn’t been discussed here is what happens if you have an aircraft problem other than a complete engine failure and need to land back at the airport?

For example, about a year or so ago, I had my alternate air flapper, basically an “L” shaped bit of metal, shear in half immediately on takeoff with the loose bit ingested into the air intake resulting in a substantial but not complete power loss.

I determined that I didn’t need to pull the chute and was confident I could get on the ground safely by self positioning on the ILS at the airport, but I wouldn’t want to try doing it in the conditions Alexis gives.

My £.02

Last Edited by Jonzarno at 19 Dec 12:49
EGSC

I know of the following cases where the (german) insurance paid for the plane …

Of course they do (initially) pay for the plane. But if they see a chance to get their money back form a grossly negligent pilot, they will go ahead and try. And rightly so, because otherwise in the end we (hopefully!) not grossly negligent pilots will have to pay the bills. Do you know for sure that the insurance did not go after the pilots in the cases you listed?

There is a famous (at least around here) case at my homebase where the insurance won after years of litigation and got over 500.000 Euros back from the pilot. He had descended below minimum without visual references and damaged his landing gear when he hit the ground in thick fog somewhere beside the approach lights. He went around and had to do a gear-up emergency landing at his diversion airfield.

The great danger in low-visibility takeoffs is not the actual takeoff, but the taxi roll towards the runway, especially at smaller airfields with no proper signposting and lighting. Anything you hit on the way will end up on your bill, the insurer will not even need the help of a lawyer to get that through.

EDDS - Stuttgart

I am also never stopped by police i the car in Germany

German police is always impressed by my driving perfomance. Last time I was in Germany they even asked for a signature:

Last Edited by lenthamen at 19 Dec 13:59

German police is always impressed by my driving perfomance. Last time I was in Germany they even asked for a signature…

Without all the Dutchmen funding our motorways with their speeding tickets, we Germans would have to pay twice as much road tax

But like alexisvc, I have not been stopped by the police since at least ten years. Before that, maybe once per year late in the evening for an alcohol check. Never had to blow into a test tube or show my license though, it was always sufficent to answer their question “did you drink anything?” in a clear voice. The only time I ever had to take an alcohol test was when my aircraft collided with a ground vehicle…

EDDS - Stuttgart

but one issue that hasn’t been discussed here is what happens if you have an aircraft problem other than a complete engine failure and need to land back at the airport?

That’s an interesting point.

There is no legal need in any private flight scenario to be able to land back at the departure airport. You are required to nominate and plan alternates but I don’t think any of them need to be your airport of departure. Are there any rules in “EASA OPS” that differ? There may be rules in say an A-to-A AOC (VFR-only pleasure flights) where you must plan thus but that’s not private flying.

And often one cannot comply with this anyway – at any non-IAP airport and at most non-ILS airports one often departs in conditions when one probably cannot land back. It’s called “life”. The simple solution is to base yourself at an ILS airport – whatever the price and inconvenience.

The risk is the risk of an engine problem which is in the relatively narrow category of “not bad enough” so you can still confidently fly the approach (perhaps a DIY approach), but “bad enough” to make it unwise to fly to the nearest ILS airport.

Without all the Dutchmen funding our motorways with their speeding tickets

I contributed too I got three speeding tickets (at some crazy 20km/h cameras) in ~ 3 hours, driving a rented car from Friedrichshafen to Stuttgart last year. I will probably never drive in Germany again – hopefully will never need to anyway. I paid the fines to the rental company but don’t know if there will be an arrest warrant waiting for me The UK is bad enough but the lowest speed camera limits I know of are 30mph (48km/h).

Last Edited by Peter at 19 Dec 15:08
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Are there any rules in “EASA OPS” that differ?

As far as I know, only for commercial operations and only if the weather at the departure aerodrome is below approach minimum. In this case, a takeoff alternate has to be selected which must not be more than one flying hour away with one failed engine (exceptions exist for aircraft with more than two engines and remote aerodromes) and a weather forecast above alternate minimum.
But for single engine aircraft this does not really make much sense.

…(at some crazy 20km/h cameras)…

With that you mean the camera is “shooting” when you go faster than 20 km/h above the limit? There are cameras that will take your picture 1 km/h above the limit… Usually you get 5 km/h subtracted from the measurement as error margin, but I have been fined several times already for doing 56 km/h when 50 was allowed! Same in Switzerland where they can fine you for doing 51…

EDDS - Stuttgart

but one issue that hasn’t been discussed here is what happens if you have an aircraft problem other than a complete engine failure and need to land back at the airport?

That was my point also when I said “but I remind myself its not the ability to take off that counts, its being able to land safely”. We can probably all take off in 0/0 conditions, legal or not, but if you cant land in 0/0, it seems to me a bit crazy to take off. But then if you have an upper end of the market machine with synthetic vision, a battery backup for all this kit, maybe its not such a concern. For me it would be. If anything simple like an iced up pitot tube (yeah I know it shouldnt happen), coupled with something else requiring me to land back at my airfield, I’d not fancy my chances much with my steam gauges and single GNS430. Maybe thats the difference……

With that you mean the camera is “shooting” when you go faster than 20 km/h above the limit?

No; I meant the speed limit was 20km/h.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

With no IFR operations allowed, no non standard IFR departures and no IFR in class G I would have to say my answer to the question of whether or not I would depart would be no.

United Kingdom
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