I remember when this accident was first reported. It was pretty awful, and the thoughts of – now how could he have stalled the TBM at flight level 260. Well, he never got there.
In hindsight of course, at the first hint of a climb delay, and the first build up of ice, off goes the AP, down goes the nose, and then communicate. Remember the simple Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Failed miserably here.
I agree with a certain sense of complacency in this case. Capable aeroplane, capable and trained pilot, ATC appear to be working with me….all the holes lining up nicely.
Very sad…
In hindsight of course, at the first hint of a climb delay, and the first build up of ice, off goes the AP, down goes the nose, and then communicate. Remember the simple Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Failed miserably here.
Sounds correct, but what to do in a congested airspace? You wait for one (1) minute at least to have a free frequency to pass your message. You wait for another one (1) minute to get your answer from ATC. Makes two (2) minutes … in particular in a stressful situation not only one thing turns worse, but several things are adding up: icing, congested airspace, congested frequencies. Seconds are running away … Are you really simply pressing the a/c’s nose down in severe IMC without getting a prior clearance from ATC? Are you really declaring emergency that easily? I don’t know … and indeed, very sad case!
and the first build up of ice, off goes the AP, down goes the nose,
Not in a TB20 and definitely not in a TBM which has de-icing boots.
There must be a strategy for a TBM with regard to what to do in certain types of icing. I just don’t know what they are. Maybe somebody here can post some detail?
The strategy for my TB20 (non TKS) would be a few mm and then you need to think seriously about your escape routes.
but what to do in a congested airspace? You wait for one (1) minute at least to have a free frequency to pass your message. You wait for another one (1) minute to get your answer from ATC. Makes two (2) minutes
No; you absolutely must keep decisionmaking in the cockpit when it comes to important stuff like this. I would ask for an “immediate” climb or a descent (in the TB20, a descent 
) and I would give them about 30 seconds to clear it. Then I would just do it, telling them as I do it.
People are too afraid of ATC. It is something you get from PPL training, with all the dark hints of what happens to you, spoken in a low voice – presumably to make sure that it isn’t overheard by somebody who just happens to fly from A to B occasionally
Sounds correct, but what to do in a congested airspace? You wait for one (1) minute at least to have a free frequency to pass your message. You wait for another one (1) minute to get your answer from ATC. Makes two (2) minutes …
No; you absolutely must keep decisionmaking in the cockpit when it comes to important stuff like this. I would ask for an “immediate” climb or a descent (in the TB20, a descent ) and I would give them about 30 seconds to clear it. Then I would just do it, telling them as I do it.
Peter is right. In addition, remember that, if you squawk 7700, ATC WILL CALL YOU!
Peter, I am truly not afraid of ATC, I am afraid of other traffic around me in full IMC. Here we are not talking about a desecend of let’s say 300ft within the ATC seperation limits, here we are talking about a few thousand feet in the worst case to get clear of clouds and freezing level. Lucky me I do now have the Traffic Alert System in the G1000, but otherwise?
I am afraid of other traffic around me in full IMC
The sky is big, Britain has flown around airspace G in IMC for a almost century with what they tell us no midairs.
If you wait for too long for ATC clearance you’ll be dead with a probability approaching 1, if you just do it in time the probability is very very low.
Leaving your level definitely gets you the attention of ATC :)
I’d be way more afraid about the terrain below…
If you wait for too long for ATC clearance you’ll be dead with a probability approaching 1
In real icing conditions, very accurately put!
Wolf, in congested airspace, you start deviating, they will soon contact you, as a matter of urgency.
You then tell your buddy/copilot, anyone with a headset, and can press a transmit button. You talk, I will deal with the issue. At that point, and the point that this guy sadly reached, -the aeroplane is falling out of the sky. In this case, he did not hit anything on the way down, and that was without ATC actually knowing what was happening.
Peter said earlier that he obviously missed the quickly decreasing airspeed. Could have been distracted awaiting the ATC climb command.But, really, with ice building quickly, level at 17k, thoughts really should have been on get me out of here, and actually in the audio, that was what ATC were attempting to do. Of all the people in the scenario, they appeared to understand the predicament, acutely.
Guys, I do not disagree with you at all! Look, I am happy enough to have an ‘all weather aircraft’ available with the -vi. But that’s on the other hand the reason why this case makes me really being irritated, I would never have thought this would be a realistic scenario with an ‘all weather aircrfat’. So when I saw this video here the first time I was really thinking of what I would have done in that situation, and the answer was pretty much clear: dying the same day, most probably. Two minutes is such a short time for decision making under these circumstances, and while still being in the process of evaluating what is happening things are turning into the ultimate worst condition.
Indeed, the only realistic escape would have been to keep an eye on the speed (as one should always be doing), and as the speed slows down without being able to even fly the a/c at level the coordinated desend is obviously the only resuce. But even than: with that amount of ice already being accumulated, would it really have been a solution? I don’t know.
I wonder about the AP in that specific case. The G1000/GFC700 offers an envelope protection, means it is impossible to stall the a/c with the AP being activiated. Should be the same with the TBM700?
The G1000/GFC700 offers an envelope protection, means it is impossible to stall the a/c with the AP being activiated
I don’t think that uses AoA data. All it will do is stop you falling below Vs (plus some margin). But if you are carrying ice, Vs itself goes up. With my 30mm ice case, Vs was about 100kt, against 75kt or so clean. So the GFC700 won’t prevent a stall with an iced up wing.
