Anyone has flown the same aircraft in all variants with NA, TN, TC engines, de-ice propeller and with/without TKS or FIKI
I had the following observations,
- In cruise: the difference between FIKI and TKS is rather a symbolic one (peace of mind from redundancy and the former allow one to legally file into “US ice” but both saves one skin the same way), the difference between TKS and clean wing is a matter of
- In descent: the engine and propeller differences are irrelevant between hot propeller and normally aspirated, turbo-normalized/charged, even the difference between clean wing and de-iced wing is very small if one carefully plan their descent (only possible away from busy airspace)
- In climb: things start to widely diverge here, can anyone opine on real mission differences between NA, TN, TC on CLEAN wing and on TKS wing if one flies in 8kft-14kft bands? and maybe few kft on limited oxygen use, I am talking about observed “real impact” of weather flying option not the usual “nice to have” (I only fly in CAVOK but it’s good to have TC & FIKI for piece of mind)
Not talking about FL240 flying where the answer is rather obvious (get a TBM)
V35 NA IO520 had no TKS before after with TKS. I fly mostly btw 8 and 12. When I fly alone I use MH O2 and set it on from 5KFT. Its three four hour leg..
Lost 3 Kts but gained in dispatch%.
I had several flight the last two years were I was happy to have TKS…
There was the dilemma to or choose TN or TKS …..I choose TKS because I think its easier to escape down then up :-). At least you know at which altitude to expect positive temps, flying up in IMC your chances may vary….
If there would exist a Turbo Twinco with TKS it would be my plane I think :-), just for that second engine in case :-)
Still trying to find out if an IO550 or TN an IO520 is the best option..to get more power. I think the TN goes 10-15Kts faster at around 12K ..At 15K its 25 to 30 Kts..Beiing able to go temp higher to 18K would solve a lot of icing issues and sitting in between building TCUs, I hear that the TAT WWIII system with the increased intercooler solves a lot of issues of being a dog a low altitude. At 17K its a 200Kts+ airplane about 30 minutes difference …but with more options ENR.
Thinking of it, on my whish list first is a STBY alternator at least it will keep running my basic avionics and TKS, A/P in case the alternator goes down.
Ibra wrote:
In cruise: the difference between FIKI and TKS is rather a symbolic one
I’m not sure what you mean. FIKI is an FAA term for approval to fly in known icing conditions. TKS is a technique for anti-ice/de-ice.
Vref wrote:
V35 NA IO520 had no TKS before after with TKS. I fly mostly btw 8 and 12. When I fly alone I use MH O2 and set it on from 5KFT. Its three four hour leg. Lost 3 Kts but gained in dispatch%. I had several flight the last two years were I was happy to have TKS…Still trying to find out if an IO550 or TN an IO520 is the best option..to get more power. I think the TN goes 10-15Kts faster at around 12K
Thanks for the details, in order of priority for your Bonnie it has to be TKS modification first before TN conversion (or more HP)
Airborne_Again wrote:
I’m not sure what you mean
Sorry, I was vague but you already answer it, I meant TKS (not FIKI) vs TKS (FIKI) 
I have not heard that many STC to add electrical hot wings or rubber boots wings and “TKS” seems to be well understood when reading an aircraft selling advert description (even more puzzling when props & windshields are electrically heated)
Vref wrote:
If there would exist a Turbo Twinco with TKS it would be my plane I think :-), just for that second engine in case :-)
There are Twinkies with boots, both NA and Turbo. They are not FIKI however, as they were never certified for it. But I fully agree, would be my favorite plane too, particularly the turbo one.
This is a Miller conversion Twinkie with the full compliment of boots, hot plate and prop de-ice.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
There are Twinkies with boots, both NA and Turbo.
I am in current investigation on this, I found the STC holder and drawings in the US to add boots and hot prop…its quite an undertaking only a few available..
The Rajay turbo has its owns issues….However I like the dial up turbo system set up. Getting off thread now :-)
Biggest real difference is between FIKI and Non-FIKI (1).
With a non FIKI airplane esp. in central/Western Europe you stay on the ground many times as you do not find a possibility to plan a flight in a way that you do not have to expect icing during major parts of fall and winter. Current weather over Central Europe is a perfect example: There is only a 1000ft could layer but all non FIKI airplanes are grounded because there is no way around.
When you have FIKI, the Turbo comes into play as it allows you to climb through such cloud layers even faster so that you can go through thicker or more significant layers.
TKS without FIKI is of extremely limited use compared to a clean wing, as the situations where the icing could neither be expected in the forecast nor can you fly around or land before touching the surprise ice layer while flying are extremely rare. Of course we all know the elephant in the room that many pilots with a non-FIKI airplane with TKS ignore the non-FIKI part and use it to illegally fly into known icing.
(1) I use the US term FIKI because it is crisp but I really mean “aircraft that by type certificate or POH/AFM are not allowed to fly into known or forecast icing”.
“FIKI” is a US term which maps onto specific (US) wx sources and has no legal meaning (in the sense of getting prosecuted for a criminal offence if you depart) outside the US. Done this before many times. What matters is the actual equipment fitted and how well it works. It could be bloody great but unless you have say two alternators and two TKS pumps you will never get FIKI approved.
Malibuflyer wrote:
TKS without FIKI is of extremely limited use compared to a clean wing, as the situations where the icing could neither be expected in the forecast nor can you fly around or land before touching the surprise ice layer while flying are extremely rare.
So rare I used TKS on several stretches since I have it installed it almost in 40% of the planned long trips ..albeit to keep my track and altitude. Glad I have it…less stress peace of mind…
There is only a 1000ft could layer but all non FIKI airplanes are grounded because there is no way around.
Thanks for that, I did not know you can’t legally fly in 1kft layers these days? (me flying inside on clean wing two days ago, I found there was no ice at all, I forgot to say it was VMC between the layers all the time in cruise with few gaps here and there to climb and descend)
If I had FIKI, I would have flown on straight line rather than avoiding clouds…
