From what I hear from friends in the US but also what I have experienced recently myself, the insurances are a greater danger to GA than anything currently.
In the US, premiums are exploding and quite a few new owners simply can’t find insurance, not even third party. I recently also talked to a broker I work with and he sais also in Europe the readiness to insure GA has diminished. There used to be quite a few companies to choose from but some big ones have pulled out. The less companies there are, the more tha chance of a monopolized outpricing. With premiums up 20-30% with renewal, this will cause quite a lot of people to pull out of GA as it simply becomes too expensive.
If people can’t get insurance, they can not fly, at least in Europe. And even if they could, it is a dangerous undertaking, as any accident will sure as hell cost a lot of money.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
quite a few new owners simply can’t find insurance
I do believe this is the reason for incredible second hand values for simple Cherokee/Archers/182, I never thought I would see these types commanding well into six figures for 40-50 year airframes, but they have a real advantage when a private pilot is looking for insurance cover. The scarce capacity for complex or tail wheel types doesn’t seem to affect Europe so much, but there is a real scarcity in the USA.
I think insurance is cyclic – like so many commodities. The natural thing is for prices to continue falling, and at some point there is a rationalisation, a load of players drop out of the business, prices rocket, demand drops, and it all goes around again.
My insurance has hardly gone up May this year.
When we flew our aircraft over from the USA back in 2017, I had the same problem of insurance for US-legs and the ferry that I could not get insurance for both sides of the pond in the same policy.
I however made it a prerequisite of my insurance shopping to get quote for ferry plus subsequent EU flying. I did find Aviabel willing to insure all, as long as the US-legs were considered part of the ferry (ie no flying around in the US for tourism and no pax on US legs) . I had to buy a year’s worth of insurance and, to be fair, the risk was rather low as half of that year the aircraft was grounded, preserved and hangared in US dry country. Cost was about EUR5k for one year, 165k hull, with significant pilot experience demands. Premium has increased about 20% since.
johnh wrote:
That sounds pretty cheep for the ferry. I was quoted nearly $40K. The shipping in a container will come in around $15K.
Our cost for the ferry of our avgas SEP PA-Mallorca back in 2017 was about EUR20k all inclusive, self piloting, including all insurance, aircraft DOC’s incl hourly maintenance, hotels, tickets and expenses for two people, 4-day US stay + 6-day ferry, 30FH, 5100NM GC airport-to-airport distance
Breakdown was EUR12k equally split for fuel , hotels+airports, aircraft costs, EUR5K for insurance, EUR3K for tickets, meals and others.
Hiring a pilot for the trip would have added , I did get some quotes but do not have them handy
My insurance went up from 1349 to 1533 GBP, May 2021. Hull value 200k. CPL/IR, 2700+ hrs, all but ~120hrs on the type.
If there are dramatic increases then I suspect they are in quite specific scenarios. One broker told me many years ago that aviation underwriters “like some planes” and “like some types of pilots” and give them good terms, and the rest pays a lot more. Unfortunately who they “like” varies from one year to the next…
But I could easily pay 2x, by going to another well known UK broker.
A ferry from the UK east coast to the UK should be less than some got quoted. I have just asked an experienced ferry pilot (he does mostly TPs and jets now) and he said:
Fuel, landing, handling, HOTAC, positioning flights.
Probably around $15k USD. In the Winter, you would also likely have de-ice costs.
Peter wrote:
My insurance went up from 1349 to 1533 GBP
That is cheap. The Mooney group insurance is now €900 CSL + 1.35% hull value to €100k and 1.15% for €200k single pilot only. I thought I was getting a cheap deal with it!
zuutroy wrote:
That is cheap. The Mooney group insurance is now €900 CSL + 1.35% hull value to €100k and 1.15% for €200k single pilot only. I thought I was getting a cheap deal with it!
Is that the European Mooney AOPA offer?
Yep.
Peter wrote:
My insurance went up from 1349 to 1533 GBP, May 2021. Hull value 200k.
That’s super-cheap. Mine is €7.400 for €350k hull value and it went up from 4.5k in last 4-5 years.
