Costs to fly

the 2013 model (year two thousand thirteen) had a gross weight increase

2013kg? Joking for Eurocontrol-land, surely?

Now I sidestep the whole issue by renting a hangar and doing it all with an A&P/IA - something not possible under Part M.

This is the bit that made me giggle - Europe, with the rules and regulations, actually ends up with a lower standard than the just "get-on-with-it" Americans.

I have to be honest the numbers coming out are not making me fall backwards off of my chair. In fact I am learning that if you are very careful it can be very rewarding. Just looking at your example Peter, a TB20 for 110ph, and 150knots, is a fair amount less than I pay for a PA28 at 100 knots. Your cost per NM is about half of mine at the moment.

If you look at pure numbers, for me a bimble say from Schwabisch Hall to Reims once every 2 to 3 months, is within budget constraints. But if I could achieve your cost per NM then suddenly South of France, Blighty, Italy all become within range. (I know that in terms of pure distance Reims and Nothern Italy are the same, for me, but I would rather cross the Alps in your machine than a 1970's PA28 that can struggle to FL100)

I wish I could make the Fly-In as I would love to pick your brain over owning an N-Reg in Europe. Because that seems the way to go for good maintenance because you can actually ensure that all is done properly and so make sure that if you have something fairly aged (i.e. bugs are out, all ADs applied) then you can keep it going for a long while.

Edited - To correct my appalling spelling :D

I think Cirrus unearthed a whole new strata (stratum?) of customers.

There are loads of people out there with say €500k to spend on a new plane. I work near a big road and I reckon a €150k car goes past every few tens of seconds. If GA could tap even 1% of that wealth (most of which is people who after all love to show their money to everybody) it would be transformed. I think the challenge is to offer a product (and a dealer/service package which is comparably slick) which these people are comfortable with.

Diamond is probably going after the same market now, as would Cessna with the C400 (if they actually sold more than 1 a year )

The spare parts business of any big brand is worth many millions however which ensures spares will always be available. Look at how many Mooneys are around.

But I think most would agree there is a limit to the depreciation that is acceptable. You don't want to buy a plane for say 200k only to see it worth 100k after 2 years. That's probably why most pilots stick to tried and tested hardware - especially following how Diamond/Thielert owners got burnt.

In that case you'd buy a used plane which is what 95% of personal aircraft owners do anyway. With a durable product like airplanes, it is very difficult for a manufacturer to keep sales up, especially in a market that does not grow.

You can see the different approaches from two successful companies: Cessna do little to sell new SEPs and only sell a handful but they have a huge install base and they try to capitalize on it and keep it alive. Given the lack of improvement in new Cessnas, used market prices are rather stable.

Cirrus on the other hand are trying everything to make the plane more attractive every year and convince customers to upgrade. They are quite good at it, most people would agree that things like Cirrus Perspective, 5 person seating and the 2013 MTOW increase add significant value.

Diamond was plagued by engine trouble but that is a very special situation. I think the DA42-VI has the potential of putting even more pressure on the DA42 used market prices (like the Thielert 2.0 has done and then the Austro AE300). The DA42-VI basically delivers the airframe/aerodynamics that the original DA42 should have.

Placido - I think that's what I said. A private owner should disregard interest on capital, and depreciation.

But I think most would agree there is a limit to the depreciation that is acceptable. You don't want to buy a plane for say 200k only to see it worth 100k after 2 years. That's probably why most pilots stick to tried and tested hardware - especially following how Diamond/Thielert owners got burnt.

Also an amazing amount of private pilots buy their plane with a loan. Not so much in Europe perhaps (I know of nobody who has done that) but it's common in the USA. In that case, depreciation could hit you badly if you have to sell. A lot of planes for sale over there are owned by banks. I recall getting into even more than the usual amount of hot water on socata.org when I questioned the wisdom of that

Peter,

Interest on capital is only one thing an owner should avoid doing to justify owning his own plane. The other thing he shall also not factor in is the loss when he sells his plane.

For a private pilot there is NO economic reason to own a plane. You do it for the fun of it......

Placido

Peter, I agree.

What makes the whole thing worth the while is traveling places. Having your own personal airliner.

However, what takes a little fun out of it for me is how we as a group are treated by the authorities here in Europe.

I will start on the EASA IR this year as they are soon'll be closing the door for the FAA IR. The amount of unnecessary (my opinion) information I have to go through is just amazing. And when you know how convenient it could have been (FAA), you really need to take a big breath some times.

Anyway, that's the world we live in, and it is just to go along or stop flying. For the moment I choose to fly along hoping for better GA times.

I used to think that the only airfield / airports worth flying to were the nice licensed ones on the chart. However, there are (certainly in the South of the UK) loads of small unlicensed airfields, most with at least 600m runway that are fabulous and often have some interesting aircraft for you to have a look at. I am sure I have visited about 50 places now, and most are within an hours radius. One I went to recently (East Kirkby) literaly is just a square field - no runway markers or anything, and it has a Lancaster you can visit. There's lots to keep you interested in, and you dont have to go too far to find it I dont think.