chflyer wrote:
inevitable nonsense
True, but don’t say it out loud lest the thinking minds figure it best to ban N-reg entirely as a solution to the confusion they created!
The fact that EASA is not recognized as a country within ICAO doesn’t simplify things either.
EASA asked for a seat and was told that they can have it if all EASA member countries resign their seats. Obviously, all EASA member countries refused to resign their seats!
Is the flying at night licencing and not operational?
The EASA rule is such that with VFR night rating you can fly vfr at night.
IFR is IFR whether its day or night, there is no distinction.
It is only when it comes to carrying passengers that the currency requirement comes into play.
And then it only affects night VFR.
Some might consider that operational.
So an N reg flown on an FAA licence must only need the PIC to have an FAA IR to fly IFR at night. Those same EASA rules would apply to VFR at night. One would need an FAA night rating to fly VFR at night. To carry passengers the PIC would also have to meet the night currency requirements.
However, FAA might demand something different and if the conditions above do not satisfy the above requirements then the additional FAA currency or whatever requirements to keep the licence need to be added.
So when Peter flies his N reg TB20 to France under IFR he can do so without problem providing his FAA licence allows him to do so.
The same applies for a VFR night flight, if his FAA licence allows him to do so.
Its only when it comes to passengers that a currency requirement kicks in. IMO he must meet both EASA and FAA requirements.
The grey area is whether or not IFR night flying currency counts towards VFR night flying currency in terms of carrying passengers.
On the other hand as a French resident pilot with EASA papers (even if I also had FAA papers) would need to meet the EASA requirements to fly either VFR or IFR at night in France. Even in an N reg aircraft.
I could record any currency in my log book to meet any FAA currency requirements.
I am not totally sure about flying to other EU/EASA member states but I believe the same applies as the aim of the rule was to have transparency and the ability to check that licences could be matched to the individual.
There are however other rules in some countries as to how long an aircraft can physically remain in that country before it needs to be re registered in its state of residence. It’s the same for cars.
There is a distinction between IFR day and night from w.r.t rating and licence.
Without night rating, a CBIR or BIR can only be used during day.
AFAIK it would get stated in the licence, accordingly (having a night rating, I do not know how.)
Flightschools teaching for instrument ratings often offer night ratings in parallel for that reason.
gallois wrote:
Is the flying at night licencing and not operational?
Both. The licensing rules decides on e.g. pilot qualifications and experience. The operational rules decides on e.g. aircraft equipment, fuel reserves etc.
It must be a licensing concession because holding a Euro IR gives it to you.
Nothing to do with the aircraft State of Registry.
Whether you get it with the BIR, no idea. Somebody obviously forgot…
It’s like when JAA (with their legal drafting done mostly in some pub) originally formulated the JAA IR, somebody discovered that all European airline pilots were suddenly illegal to carry passengers at night!!! I believe @tumbleweed may remember.
So, they thought, hmmm, hmmm, how can we fix this cockup? Hmmm, what do airline pilots have in common? Four ex wives is common but not completely universal… so we need to think of something else. Nylon shirts smelling of stale sweat? Not with CAT3 anymore. They didn’t all sit the CPL/IR exams either (due to various old routes into the system). Hmmm… they must all have an IR! Hey!!!! That will do. So we got this amazing concession which has no relation to any reality.
Peter wrote:
this amazing concession which has no relation to any reality
Why not? The issues with night landings and landing in poor visibility are similar.
Merely having an IR does not necessarily mean you have any exposure to poor visibility landings.
When I did the IR one had to already have a night rating. It also didn’t just come with the CBIR.
The weirdest thing was that I could do a night rating on an SEP with an FI who had privaleges to instruct at night. That also allowed me to fly my MEP at night. However, if I wanted to do the night rating in my MEP I would have had to take lessons and test with an ATO. Its one of those bizarre things in EASA regs.
The night rating is carried on my licence in the same way as my IR and language proficiency.
There is no mention of an ability to carry passengers or not. The curency and revalidation processes are written elsewhere.
I don’t know what all this has got to do with nylon shirts. Perhaps that needs a different thread🙂
Since I have had an IR I have made no night VFR landing and take offs. All my landings and take offs at night have been IFR with passengers or alone. So I never bother to do a separate night VFR landing and take off in order to carry passengers.
The grey is whether or not I could carry passenges on a VFR flight at night even having done so under IFR. I have not seen any regulation regarding this.
Bosmantico do you want to add yet more rules for passenger carriage?
The UK CAA was doing a day-only IR (for CVD pilots) for many years but only under the table because JAA and later EASA did not allow it.
In recent years EASA has allowed it formally.
