I have to agree with Canuck. ATC needs total makeover in UK. Just the fact that you need to change your squawk five hundred times when flying IFR in the UK shows that their system leaves a little to be desired…
Once I received vectors (as VFR) from FIS in G airspace to avoid departing IFR traffic in Sweden. They were not obliged to tell me anything but I really appreciate it.
It scares me to think that the FIS might had seen the possible collision risk and said nothing.
They are not allowed to. They are FISOs not ATCOs.
ATC see converging aircraft all day…
Hm, correct me if I got this wrong: Basic service means that they will forward traffic that checked in on the FIS freq saying where they are and where they are going. If the FISO get info via radar about conflicting traffic they wont inform you because you chose basic service instead of traffic service. Somehow the idea of safety first got lost in politics… not even a difference in charge depending on service level. How did you end up in this?
Peter wrote:
Presumably Jason’s Cirrus was likewise invisible.
Well no as I said I got a traffic alert on the traffic system so he was squawking. But I got no heads up from ATC before they let me go.
No point talking to non-radar London Info.
mcrdriver wrote:
Hm, correct me if I got this wrong: Basic service means that they will forward traffic that checked in on the FIS freq saying where they are and where they are going. If the FISO get info via radar about conflicting traffic they wont inform you because you chose basic service instead of traffic service. Somehow the idea of safety first got lost in politics… not even a difference in charge depending on service level. How did you end up in this?
In the UK London info (FIS) can’t offer anything other than basic service. You need a radar to offer traffic service.
It is a ridiculous system.
looking in the report the area was radar covered so all the necessary info was in the system..
Every country has its environment-specific considerations (country size, aircraft movement density, etc). Nonetheless, France, Germany, Switzerland, and Poland all have radar and provide traffic advisories as part of FIS in uncontrolled airspace. I’m not sure of the lower level of coverage, though.
I just returned on Sunday from a trip to the Baltics and had FIS radar coverage down to about 1’500ASL all across Poland. They were very attentive, knew all military and parachuting area activity etc and provided heading suggestions to avoid when they could see a possible entry approaching. I received numerous traffic advisories too. Same in Germany. Of course the density of air traffic is different from UK so their workload was certainly less but still …
All in all, I don’t know why anyone with a transponder wouldn’t have it on and take advantage of the extra pair of eyes.
Peter wrote:
It says a few hundred feet. That happens frequently in UK class G on nice days
I can recall three situations much like this in my last 14 years of flying in the US. One with an L39 jet very similar to this (also with my PPL instructor), another with a Mooney head on (100% chance of collision if I hadn’t turned and descended fast), and the third a Cessna 210 going right to left that passed behind me without time for evasive action by either of us. Not trying to be prickish, but this report strikes me as only newsworthy because of the video. Where I fly, mostly in Class E airspace with radar coverage, there is no possibility given the amount of traffic that all could be talking to ATC and you just have to look out using whatever tools you have (and/or pilot to pilot communication on 122.75) and steer out of the way.
Peter wrote:
They are not allowed to. They are FISOs not ATCOs.
Here you talk to a Control unit for FIS. It is the same unit you talk to when you’re in the TMA. I guess it is pretty unique situation.
