Alternate and diversion aerodrome - do you ask for PPR/PNR before getting airborne?

Some UK airports have objected to the Strasser scheme, citing examples of pilots abusing it to get free landings. Hard to believe, but if you know the UK GA scene, it isn’t that hard to believe (to save £10) I never took advantage of that scheme, even when offered by the airport, because the amount is so trivial. And the 3+ digit landing fee airports never joined the scheme anyway (IIRC the 4 digit ones like EGKK were never asked).

EASA has no jurisdiction in this, unfortunately.

customs and immigration be delegated to local law enforcement who can be called in a short time.

Absolutely, and this is what you have in say Croatia, and curiously in the UK too. But unions will look after the job demarcation

Peter wrote:

And the 3+ digit landing fee airports never joined the scheme anyway (IIRC the 4 digit ones like EGKK were never asked).

It is them who should be forced to accept it first and foremost! Together with all military airbases and other no-access runways available for emergency.

Peter wrote:

Some UK airports have objected to the Strasser scheme, citing examples of pilots abusing it to get free landings.

On a legal point of view this should be easy to check and make sure abuse is kept at a minimum. Clearly you can’t exclude it fully, but to a large extent by putting in place clear criteria under which the Strasser scheme is applicable or not.

upon overflying this thread, stumbled upon these 2 remarks from @Peter, quite a few pages back (…):

Interesting. I wonder if any airline pilots here can give examples of an airliner diverting but not wishing to declare an emergency?

Since the question had not been answered, I will provided the following, as taken from my airline days. There are a couple of ways of communicating your problem with ATC.

The highest of course being the emergency, with its Mayday Mayday Mayday call. Frees you of any legal airborne obligation, and the PIC is “free” to choose the best course of action in order to protect the passengers, crew, cargo, and aircraft. Obvious uses are for fire, loss of one engine in a twin, etc. And yes, I’ve had one in my airline career, if anyone is interested see G-EZDM. Quite a few other interesting stories, but I leave it here for now
We got drilled in the sim during LOFT sessions (in full uniform attire) twice a year, and had to demonstrate decision making, flying skills, etc. to proficiency.
As an example, my last OPC/LPC scenario on the 320 series had a LFMN to LSGG flight. SFO as PF. Right after V2 one of the engine explodes and starts a fire, leading to smoke on the flight deck. The TRE has great fun activating the smoke generator multiple times, so that reading the ECAM and paper checklist are very difficult, not aided by our full face O2 masks. Cockpit is split, with the famous “I have control”, the SFO dives into the smoke location, isolation, evacuation checklists, a pretty lengthy procedure in itself. LFMN closes behind us due to a huge CB that built up out of nowhere, producing gusts of 55-65 across the field (these scenarios are loved by most airline pilots ). Ask ATC for the runway length in Cannes, well too short for a very close to MTOM A320. We finally end up doing a single engine vectored ILS into Toulon–Hyères, followed by a full evac since the engine was still on fire… ain’t that fun?

One step lower is the not very often use of Pan Pan Pan. Loosing an engine on 4 holer, loosing some nav capabilities, loosing de-icing or weather radar, or maybe a medical case, could warrant its use. It is mostly unknown in the private flying world, and seldom used in the airline world since their pilots are the same kind of humans.

The next one down are unofficial or partly official terms. One example is the Minimum Fuel call.
Another one, which I used once on a ALC-MXP flight, is Medical Emergency. We had an elderly PAX suffering a heart attack, a doc was quickly found. FAs relayed the doc advising of the need to land ASAP. Placed the call with ATC whilst selecting “nearest airport” in the FMS. Decided on BCN which was already behind us. Spanish ATC has not the intention of fighting for top marks, but were brilliant in this case. Turned us around, gave us a straight in to the 25R (24R nowadays)ILS, free speed. Came on stand some 22 minutes later (!), ambulance awaiting by the mobile stairs. Kudos BCN

Just tell them you had to divert due to fuel situation etc. They might get cocky (like police anywhere, especially if armed) but they can’t do anything. You are the “captain”.

Small correction here, yes, even on a UL you are the Captain.
But there could be 2 captains on a flight. This situation is encountered quite often in the airline world, typical examples being on route or line checks (once a year), or special airport intro flights. The correct legal wording here is PIC. There is only one PIC/aircraft.

Hope I wasn’t too boring and could give you guys some insight into the airline flying world. It ain’t only newspaper reading, sipping coffee, and give the nice FAs a pinch on the bum

Thanks Dan.

Good explanation.

Dan wrote:

ain’t that fun?

LOL, sometimes it can be, such as if it’s not an examination flight, which most sim sessions are. But sometimes if you are simpy trying to figure out scenarios and how to deal with them, you can get really interesting results. I recall withnessing two guys evaluating the A320 model doing a go around on mechanical backup. It works but it is “interesting” and needs two very sharp guys. Or to recover a 747-400 out of an inverted spin. Had really interesting results, yet doubtful if they would work on the real plane as the sim models often are limited. Or from my own experience landing a TU154 on one engine only (as the “computer” of the sim decided to cut two instead of one at 300 ft ATO).

Actually, I recall one of those which did in all probability a crash: The captain of an American DC10 which lost most hydraulics due to a cargo door separation over Windsor Locks had actually tried to fly the simulator without hydraulics before that accident on a free session he had, suggesting to the instructor to shut all hydraulics down and see if he could fly the plane. Proved quite useful as he never went into an emergency descent but decided to take it slow and careful. That airplane landed while the Turkish DC10 which suffered the same fate did not.

But I guess that digresses quite a bit.

I might add that some people seem to avoid the term “Mayday” for some reason but go for “We are declaring an emergency at this time”, which ends up the same but sounds more like “we are on top of things but to be on the safe side..”

Dan wrote:

One step lower is the not very often use of Pan Pan Pan.

One of the most prominent cases where Pan Pan was used at first was SR111. They also never used Mayday but “emergency” later on.

Dan wrote:

The correct legal wording here is PIC. There is only one PIC/aircraft.

Correct. Also one of the bits which can’t be repeated often enough. You can even be a Captain in the back of the airplane.

Dan wrote:

The next one down are unofficial or partly official terms. One example is the Minimum Fuel call.

“Minimum Fuel” — and “MAYDAY Fuel” — are fully official phraseology. Both are in SERA.

I might have had a stupid idea:

You must be allowed to ask for these permissions and they must be required to give you an answer. And flight planning doesn’t necessary result in a flight. So couldn’t you beat them with their own weapons?

How about a service provider like Skydemon asks every single PPR aerodome, every single day, in the name of each of his members, if the if it is available as a diversion. Then incorporate that data and make it available in the planning software.

Theoretically viable?

Theoretically viable?

Yes but it would really p1ss them off

In some cases it might launch an informal search action.

Ideally one would send in the PN email and then email a cancellation while airborne if not needed, but airborne emails are difficult. Golze ADL can send SMS but not email. One can set up a private site which does e.g. SMS to email (you are a lot more likely to get a successful SMS send at say FL100+ than something needing an internet connection) and the cost would be nil; only sending SMS costs money.