Alternate and diversion aerodrome - do you ask for PPR/PNR before getting airborne?

Malibuflyer wrote:

Easy answer would obviously be that for many NCO flights there is no legal mandate for filing an alternate anyways.

What do you mean? According to Part-NCO, the following applies:

For practical and safety purposes, I follow the FAA 1-2-3 rule for (a) although one could go with a tigher definition of VMC, especially in class G.

Malibuflyer wrote:

So how do you handle it? Very practically: What do you do if you ask your “designated alternate” for PPR but they don’t grant it. Would you then replan your flight with another alternate (up to a point where you cancel the flight because no other alternate is in reasonable fuel range)

Yes. That’s exactly what I would do.

of fly anyways and declare fuel emergency?

Of course not. That would be unprofessional in the extreme.

Btw: In case of a genuine emergency it doesn’t matter what you’ve filed in the flight plan.

I actually file EDDF very frequently as an alternate for my flight plans to EDFE and would never have come to the idea that I have to get PPR or a slot in EDDF for that – and don’t know any pilot in EDFE who actually does.

I don’t ask for a slots either. But slots are something different. They are devices for managing airport capacity. An airport wouldn’t want to allocate slots for use as alternate as those slots would almost certainly not be used and thus would reduce capacity needlessly.

wbardorf wrote:

According to Part-NCO, the following applies:

Yes. And at least for me, the majority of flights satisfy the condition in NCO.OP.140(a).

(Which is not to say that I only file alternate when required by NCO.OP.140. Personally, I put the bar higher.)

Airborne_Again wrote:

(Which is not to say that I only file alternate when required by NCO.OP.140. Personally, I put the bar higher.)

Agree, I always plan for an alternate even on a CAVOK day as unexpected things can always happen: This aircraft forced Oban Airport to shut just 5 minutes before I was supposed to land there: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47568363

I had not planned (formally and also not in my head) for any alternate but fortunately had taken a closer look at a private airfield with a grass strip on an adjacent island just a few weeks earlier which quickly enough came to mind…I got ATC to call up the private airfield owner for PPR.

Since then, I always plan for an alternate!

Ibra wrote:

Planning alternates depends on where you are flying, middle of France or UK SE not sure how much thinking is involved? Scotland it needs a deep thinking for logistic/fuel? Greenland, I think you either know the stuff or take someone who know it…

Try flying to SE England on 26 Dec or 1 Jan in marginal IMC conditions when most of airports are shut, including even Oxford, Southampton and Southend! I think my alternate last year ended up being Birmingham when flying into Blackbushe but fortunately I didn’t need it.

Malibuflyer wrote:

Very practically: What do you do if you ask your “designated alternate” for PPR but they don’t grant it. Would you then replan your flight with another alternate (up to a point where you cancel the flight because no other alternate is in reasonable fuel range)

I sure would. Had the case with Oberpfaffenhofen (EDMO). I asked beforehand whether I could file them as alternate and I got a nein.

Thank god the Munich area is infested with GA airports :-/

Ibra wrote:

Aha, yes true, no idea how Santa manage it

Easy: At Rudolph Speed 30mins of reserve fuel lasts couple of times around the globe – so he can basically always file his home base as legal alternate.
In addition, the certified RRR-System (Rudolph Rednose Recognition) reduces the legal minima significantly so that it is unlikely he needs that alternate

I appreciate this is CAT OPS but I can only retain so much information in my head, so for private flying I apply the same rule as I do at work.