Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

France: straight-in IFR joins prohibited (a VFR circuit is mandatory?) if tower is unmanned

This may be relevant, though it is for normal VFR joins.

Of couse a straight-in is much safer than circling. It is a strange reg to make the requirement to circle unconditional, especially as the signals square is no longer generally used.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@ Peter it may be a strange reg but it is the reg and it is in AIP. As a pilot here in France and having taken my IR in France (all said sometime ago now)I accept the regulation and have no concerns about it. Whether a straight in landing is safer than a circle to land we would have to agree to disagree on this matter.
@ Lionel, let’s face it you have infringed the regulations, on the other hand you could argue you were VFR for the landing as I doubt whether the others in the circuit were IFR at the time. (Not really a good argument with the dgac but maybe you’d get away with it.)
I looked for the regulation that says that aircraft under IFR have priority over VFR for landing on airfields with no ATS and couldn’t find it, could you point me in the right direction please?

France

I was surprised, given the discussion we’ve been having, to see that the plate for Nancy Essey specifies:

Absence ATS: procedure mandatory followed by circling

(A more faithful translation from the French would be “In ATS’s absence, a procedure must be followed by a visual circling manoeuvre”

I haven’t seen that on other plates, and can’t help but wonder why they specify it if it’s already what the law says.

EGTF, LFTF

Ibra wrote:

Short answer is going against ATC instructions will get you in troubles for sure

I wouldn’t say that. AFAIU the USA has a rule that you have to follow ATC instructions, but there is no such rule in Europe. Of course, there are lots of instructions you do have to follow, but not everything — particularly not in class G airspace.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

gallois wrote:

I looked for the regulation that says that aircraft under IFR have priority over VFR for landing on airfields with no ATS and couldn’t find it, could you point me in the right direction please?

I said that on base that when I do an IFR approach to an AFIS field with VFR traffic in the circuit, the AFIS agent told the VFR traffic “there is an IFR arrival on final, he has priority over you”. I just assumed the AFIS agent was right.

ELLX

I don’t think there is a rule as such but “you do get asked as VFR to coordinate with IFR” as far as I know the lowest (not fastest) guy has priority in the visual circuit?

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

I don’t think there is a rule as such but “you do get asked as VFR to coordinate with IFR” as far as I know the lowest (not fastest) guy has priority in the visual circuit?

Airplanes “landing or in the final stages of an approach to land” have priority. Whether that means 1nmi final or 3nmi final or “from the FAF” or “from the IF” or something else, I don’t know.

In my understanding the “lowest” rule comes into play after the “landing or in the final stages of an approach to land”, or eventually as tie-breaker if several aircraft are considered “in the final stages of an approach to land”.

ELLX

lionel wrote:

I said that on base that when I do an IFR approach to an AFIS field with VFR traffic in the circuit, the AFIS agent told the VFR traffic “there is an IFR arrival on final, he has priority over you”. I just assumed the AFIS agent was right.

There is no rule that IFR has priority. However aircraft on final do have priority – or, to be more precise, other aircraft should give way. SERA.3210(c)(4)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

There is no rule that IFR has priority

There might not be a rule but IFR inbounds must get priority over circuit traffic otherwise the system will collapse.

In the UK, if there is ATC (and there must be for IAPs to be permitted by the CAA, like it or not) the ATC will tell circuit traffic to orbit as required until the IFR inbound lands.

One could force IFR inbounds to circle around / join the circuit but imagine what happens if the inbound is a bizjet and the circuit is full of planes doing 60kt. The bizjet will run out of fuel before it can land What happens in France if there is a manned ATC tower, in such a case?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

One could force IFR inbounds to circle around / join the circuit but imagine what happens if the inbound is a bizjet and the circuit is full of planes doing 60kt. The bizjet will run out of fuel before it can land

In the US this is a common situation at uncontrolled airports. What happens is cooperation between aircraft: either the aircraft on downwind extend to let the jet sneak in or the jet slows down while another aircraft makes a short approach and opens a gap. Or both. The flight rules are irrelevant because ATC is not involved and aircraft are required to report on CTAF based on physical position, if able, then see & avoid.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 02 Aug 19:27
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top