What is less fine is that the clubs see no reason to get their members into the finer aspects of recreational flying – they are indeed only too happy to keep their members/renters limited in their aspirations and abilities. And if the clubs don’t guide them there, only the fewest work it out by themselves. Luckily there are some forums to help!
But there’s a reason for that. From my own observation it is about 75 percent of all PPLs who never fly abroad. And I think it’s because nobody has ever prepared them to do it, or helped them to get to the necessary level of confidence.
I also think that once you have the PPL you have to start doing longer flights at first chance. If you spend the first three years in visual contact with your home field … at one point these pilots will stop flying altogether, because they realize that the € 250 ice creams and burgers really are too expensive …
I remember when I first had my PPL (which i did in 8 weeks …) how big the step to cross the Alps was. My first long flight was from the Munich area to Losinj Island in Croatia. I think i spent 25 hours preparing the flight and called (no internet wx briefing in 1995) the weather guy at Munich Airport about 10 times the week before. when I finally flew over the Alps I felt a little bit like Charles Lindbergh. I also remember the turbulence on approach to LDLO … But when i got out of that plane, I was really proud!
There’s really nobody who can help you make these precious experiences. You just have to go. When my friend (who i gave my Warrior) got his PPL he would always ask me to go flying with him. I did it once or twice, but then I refused and told him that he has to fly alone. To all the airports in our area first. I told him to go flying in rain, when the wind was a bit stronger and soon he’ll do his first flight abroad. If I had flown with him all the time … it doesn’t really help you to become a confident pilot if there’s always a more experienced pilot in the right seat. I KNOW it would have not made me a better pilot.
I don’t quite agree, Jan. I don’t think they willingly keep their members “low-level PPL”s. What I see is that most of the clubs do try to offer their PPL holders courses and motivations to advance. In Germany CVFR (now no more), night, etc. but their possibilites arr limited. IFR they don’t but that’s because they can’t train for it (well, now they can, with the CB IR).
Also, continuing the learning is not only a Bringschuld of the clubs; it’s also a Holschuld of the pilot. Nobody stops the pilot from asking what he can do to learn these “advanced” things like “touring”. It may be that his instructor will then say “fine, but I don’t know anything about that”, but then I guess someone/somewhere will be found where he can advance as he likes. I do indeed disagree with the cynical view that clubs willingly try to keep their pilots at the sheer PPL level.
“Willingly” is perhaps too big a word, yes, agreed. But the clubs do not have any material interest. And they too rely on volunteers’ work so they’ll be happy if they can get their basic job done, and done well. That’s at least what I observe at mine – and blessed be the brave people that do it all, day after day, year after year. Shall we say “naturally” rather than “willingly” ?
BTW linguistically inclined as I am, I much like your terms “Bringschuld” vs. “Holschuld” * – may I translate them as “bound to offer” vs. “bound to collect” ?
*I liked even better the “Volksverdummung” in another thread. A nice term for a horrible and very real phenomenon.
Since I knew that Jan was around, I didn’t bother to translate myself. 
I am sure no club deliberately keeps members/students inexperienced (that would be vindictive) but self fly hire is a big part of any school’s income – especially on the larger aircraft within the fleet which of necessity appear further down (or up?) the price list of PPL lesson costs. When my son started his PPL in a PA28-161 every lesson was £250 or so, and you can train in a C150 for quite a lot less. Self fly hire is important on the bigger types.
Just a a data point, whenever I talked to flight school owners, they sad that they don’t have much profit (not: margin) from renting out. May not be true, but that’s what they say.
And for sure: a big part of the profit comes from flights with an instructor, because they charge ~ 60 €/h for the instructor (here in Germany) and pay only ~15-20€ of that out to the instructor…
Vladimir, this comment is not gonna help – but the money you spent on getting all those ratings (in Switzerland, nonetheless) probably would have gotten you a rather nice airplane, plus the funds to operate it for a couple of years ;-)
boscomantico wrote:
in my book means to allow members to usefully utilize their aircraft for real missions/trips.
Perhaps, you should read an other book once in a while. There is much more to aviation than just personal transport fom A to B and many people are quite happy in different clubs. They can enjoy a variety of aircraft and different air sports and different kind of flying, from the glider to microlights to cessnas. Some find fulfilment in instrucing, others in aerobatics, the next is very happy with the normal 100$ Hamburger run and, yes, some people like to travel.
In our club we have an old chap with about 15-20 hours per year, just flying his choir and colleagues around the home town once in a while. He does so for over 20 years now and is happy as can be. Another one flies TBM800 in his dayjob and enjoys flying the 60 hp motor glider through north Germany. An other one just wants to be in the air for an hour or so in the C150 and enjoy flying after a hard days work. Yet another one is preparing for the gliding aerobatics world championships, others love to do airwork, aerotows and banner flying, the next one is happy to visit his flat in Norderney with the plane. There is not only one way to find fulfilment in aviation, or to “do it right”. All of the mentioned are “real” pilots, even without a Cirrus or IR.
Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
What is less fine is that the clubs see no reason to get their members into the finer aspects of recreational flying – they are indeed only too happy to keep their members/renters limited in their aspirations and abilities. A
Sorry, but this is very over generalized. I know plenty aero clubs where I could say the exact opposite. After all, an aero club isn’t the planes, buildings and airfields. It’s the people. I am active in managing our aero clubs ATO, as flight safety manager and flight instructor and I constantly help my students to find their fun in aviation – from assisting in aircraft ownership to travel guides, from stick and rudder trining to total energy management or airmenship. Honestly, everytime you guys here rant about aero clubs, I feel personally attacked, partly on behalf of those people who devote a great chunk of their free time (This year I sopped counting at 300 hours work for promoting general aviation – not counting my flight instructor duties) to even make things work. Managing an aero club with an own airfield and an own ATO equals the management of a medium sized business. All in the free time, just to be ranted at. In my view that doesn’t add up. If you want clubs to promote more aviation or endorse more “real” flying (whatever “unreal” flying then will be), you should take initiative and do stuff. Yes, it’s hard and yes, change management is part of this, but discriminating against aero clubs and their word doesn’t help at all.
Sorry for threadnapping, but I constantly read the same lament and it starts to stop making fun to read this otherwise very nice forum.
Thank you.
Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
What is less fine is that the clubs see no reason to get their members into the finer aspects of recreational flying – they are indeed only too happy to keep their members/renters limited in their aspirations and abilities.
Of course they do! As Bosco said, the purpose of the club is to promote flying and getting members into the “finer” aspects is a also a way of increasing flight time which improves the club economy.
But of course, there are clubs and clubs. In Sweden, virtually all clubs are democratic, member-run, not-for-profit organisations.
