Not sure it is a money spinner if they are doing it for two people per presenter at £140 each ie £280 per day. Most people here won’t lift a finger for £280/day. Much less lucrative than the old £200 x 20 formula (where the CAA guy top-sliced ~20 from each month’s candidate list and dutifully sent them to gasco) where they booked the venue (perhaps £500 + food) and just lectured all day and didn’t have to get at all involved with the individuals. The food may have been £400 for 20 but that is still not bad change from the £4000. In fact I was surprised they were running it for the roughly halved numbers they were getting in 2020.
Peter wrote:
Not sure it is a money spinner if they are doing it for two people per presenter at £140 each ie £280 per day. Most people here won’t lift a finger for £280/day. Much less lucrative than the old £200 x 20 formula (where the CAA guy top-sliced ~20 from each month’s candidate list and dutifully sent them to gasco) where they booked the venue (perhaps £500 + food) and just lectured all day and didn’t have to get at all involved with the individuals. The food may have been £400 for 20 but that is still not bad change from the £4000. In fact I was surprised they were running it for the roughly halved numbers they were getting in 2020.
Oh, I agree. I meant that if numbers increase once they are satisfied it works then the economics become a whole lot more attractive. With a ratio of 1:2 I cant imagine they will run the course for long, although we dont know the terms of the CAA contract. It wouldnt surprise me at all if the CAA arent subsidising the whole operation.Indeed I cant see much point if you are only going to process a few people a month – may as well not bother.
Latest situation in France is here
In 2018, 415 infringements
In 2019, 635 !!
And the post-lockdown numbers are said to be even worse.
DGAC seems irritated, especially by GA, by this increase, despite EFBs and all the messages.
To me, such a big increase can only be explained by an increase in restricted areas or a different accounting method.
Jujupilote wrote:
To me, such a big increase can only be explained by an increase in restricted areas or a different accounting method.
hard to comment on the 2019 increase, apart maybe on the fact a lot of the FIS zones were momentarily closed (due to strikes and organisational changes within ATC operations). Starting 2019 I started getting more and more CTOT slots, being informed via automated messages certain FIS were closed and to call another FIS (where subsequently it was impossible to reach anyone) which I think may have led to infringements. The situation has only accentuated in 2020 with less and less service being offered. Contrary to what appears to be the view in the UK (with the catastrophic consequences that have been debated here ad infinitum) access to CAS in France is easy and usually pretty joined up so pilots access it (and talk to ATC freely and expect to do so) a lot. My guess is when that becomes complicated, people do start to make stupid mistakes and cross airspace (that is still being monitored) without permission. I have done the test with Chambery’s airspace (after having gotten a slot because of ATC staffing at LFLB) by insisting on calling them after take-off before going to Lyon, eventually you get an answer :-)
To me, such a big increase can only be explained by an increase in restricted areas or a different accounting method.
The UK CAA managed to get a nice steady increase by
I would be amazed if France was dumb enough to do this, but some of it is quite easy. The challenge will be to get a French ATCO to post here that there has been a change of policy.
OTOH it is tricky in a country where you can fly VFR almost everywhere without a transponder – UK and France 
I am sure minor busts are not increasing. And the really serious ones (big airport shutdown) should be reducing, with GPS usage.
Still, 600 for such a big country is not much at all. The UK gets 1300 and that is after really scraping out the bottom of the barrel.
I think you will find one of the huge differences is that most of the airspace in the UK has effectively been privatised. How many other countires have done this? It means in the UK’s case NATS simply leans on the CAA, who cave in, I suspect that may be a lot less likely elsewhere in the same way.
Fuji_Abound wrote:
I think you will find one of the huge differences is that most of the airspace in the UK has effectively been privatised. How many other countires have done this?
Most Swedish CTR/TMAs have been “privatised” (to this company) but that is not noticeable in how the airspace is managed.
September 2020 “sentencing” numbers are out:
10 got the Gasco “course”.
Interestingly the suspensions (3) are now being itemised and all customers shown are ones who did more than just Gasco the previous time. If this is a policy, that’s good news because per CAP1404 the post-Gasco action on any infringement is a suspension (which is obviously atrociously aggressive; indeed that is where I am, until June 2021, along with great many others ).
Interesting also are the first two itemisations under ‘closed with no further action’.
Not sure how the first one works. Perhaps this is just a “yes you did”, “no I didn’t” conversation or perhaps there is more two it.
Then with the second one they have dropped reference to a licensed engineer – a positive development suggesting that perhaps you no longer have to pay to prove your innocence.
I got a “no further action” in July 2019 for a smaii height infringement while squawking Mode S with C and talking to Scottish. On being informed, I immediately descended. On receiving CAA querie, I responded. I had been distracted.
The appeal process mentioned appears to be English only. I’ve raised this with my MP and there was a dialogue yesterday – nothing more since.
