Flyer59 wrote:
But that’s not the point. what Peter (and me, and others) reported has (IMHO !) to do with the character feature of trying to be a perfectionist. we want to plan our flights as good as we can, we check all available weather sources (and we spent hours every day here, trying to learn more). And at the same time we are always aware that tomorrow morning when we drive to the airport the weather will again be different than forecast.
Yes, but you cannot do anything with the weather, you just have to (re)act accordingly, often there and then when/if bad weather is encountered. I don’t know, it’s more of a priority thing perhaps. Flying SEP we only have one engine, and there is only so much we can do to keep it healthy. Nevertheless it can stop any minute for any unlikely reason, and there is no way to plan for such an event. So the only priority when/if such a thing happen is to survive and only survive (nothing else matters). Once you get that priority straight, things gets so much simpler (with a BRS this simplicity becomes obvious). It’s similar with the weather, there is only so much you can do. If every flight requires a different “risk assessment” depending on who you got on board, then one can raise the question about how safe a pilot you are in the first place. A go/no go decision should be based on available facts, not on who you got on board or how “important” it is to get there. A priority thing.
LeSving wrote:
That’s how I feel about it also. I am a bit amused about the stress level here. Is the stress maybe caused by being anxious about cancelling a flight, not so much about the weather itself ? Also, you can always start a flight and return or land somewhere else if the weather turns out to be worsening.
For me you have ‘hit the nail on the head’ – the anxiety is not caused by the bad weather, or the decision making, but dealing with the aftermath of deciding to cancel / divert / return. If I am flying away with family, there will be an expectation of how the trip will happen by the passengers, even if they are briefed by me that that the trip might get cancelled either shortly before departure, or during the flight. (because so many previous flights have gone exactly as planned). It is always disappointing not to meet ones expectations, and the more pre-planned events at the destination, that have to be cancelled by my passengers because of my cancelled/diverted flight, the more likely I am to hear “can we go by Easyjet next time” !
Thankfully it doesn’t happen often, even though we need to prepare for it every time, ….. and I still sleep well…:-)
A go/no go decision should be based on available facts, not on who you got on board or how “important” it is to get there. A priority thing.
But that’s not how psychology works, or we, for that matter. All of us here know all that, and we do know these priorities. But our emotions are not 100 % controlled by facts and decisions.
… the anxiety is not caused by the bad weather, or the decision making, but dealing with the aftermath of deciding to cancel / divert / return. If I am flying away with family, there will be an expectation of how the trip will happen by the passengers
For myself i can say that this is not a factor that can make me nervous. From anywhere in Eurrope you can easily get home (to Munich anyway). I never worry about that. And my family has no expectations, they have been with a pilot long enough (and my wife had a PPL for ten years, so she knows).
Flyer59 wrote:
But that’s not how psychology works, or we, for that matter. All of us here know all that, and we do know these priorities. But our emotions are not 100 % controlled by facts and decisions.
What I mean is, it is supposed to be fun 
at least for those of us that don’t fly for a living. So you prioritize accordingly and handle any other problems when/if they pop up. This also requires me to plan and fly in a way so I actually have the mental capacity and time to deal with those eventual problems and have a “fool proof” and simple solution to them. A bit hard to explain, but I like flying the Cub (among other types of flying). I like flying a bit “bush style” in the mountains, but I am not an Alaskan professional bush pilot with 20 thousand+ hours of experience to back me up, and it doesn’t help me one bit pretending I am one (although I’m much better than the average pilot for sure, as we all are )
Flyer59 wrote:
This discussion was not about anxiety or extreme stress. It was about beeing a bit nervous about a longer flight the next day about “butterflies” in the stomach …
and then:
I think it is very normal. Of course there’s pilots who have none of that. That’s the “bold pilots” from the famous saying!
With respect, I think this is nonsense. If you cannot sleep the night before a flight then that, in my book, is extreme anxiety or stress and, IMHO, you are not fit to fly the next day. I certainly would not get into seat 0A if I couldn’t sleep the night before (no matter why). That’s not butterflies….
If you cannot sleep the night before a flight then that, in my book, is extreme anxiety or stress and, IMHO, you are not fit to fly the next day
I would not agree that not being able to sleep is necessarily extreme anxiety or stress, but I would agree that if you have not had any sleep you probably aren’t fit to fly the next day (depending on the complexity of the flight, the aircraft, and whether there is a co-pilot or even an autopilot).
For example I have found that as I got older I found it progressively harder to sleep, anyway. Teenagers sleep seemingly endless hours each day (10+ possibly). Now, if I get 7 hours I am really pleased but it is rare. 6 is good going. So if I am doing an early departure (possible 0800L at my airfield, and necessary to reach some airports before they close, or for practical reasons at the destination) I want to be in bed 11pm. But a lot of things can disrupt sleep. Spending time on some electronic device (phone, PC) within the last hour of going to bed destroys sleep pretty well for most, so last-minute flight planning is not a good idea. Alcohol sends you off to sleep initially but then results in crap quality sleep afterwards, so that’s useless. And hotel beds are often crap, etc.
The uncertainty about wx just makes this worse, especially given typical N European weather patterns where you get a load of fronts, then a 1- or 2-day gap, then a load more fronts, so if your trip doesn’t fit into the gap, you will be stuck out there for several more days. I think almost every trip I have done so far this year had to have its second leg done as planned otherwise the price would have been a 2-3 day delay. If you are a “perpetually retired” person then this doesn’t matter (unless you are stuck at Wangen Lachen and it’s raining H24 
) but most of those aren’t doing much flying…
For example I have found that as I got older I found it progressively harder to sleep, anyway.
Exactly. Me too. And I do sleep, I just wake up earlier, and sometimes I have a problem falling asleep. Not very different from when I know I have to DRIVE to some place at 5 a.m. and then cannot fall asleep. The more I KNOW that I have to get up and time …. the harder it sometimes is to fall asleep.
With respect, I think this is nonsense. If you cannot sleep the night before a flight then that, in my book, is extreme anxiety or stress and, IMHO, you are not fit to fly the next day.
No, THAT is nonsense, at least to me :-) I have NO extreme anxiety. I have flown close to 1500 hours, 150 types, I have flown aerobatics solo, twins, Jetpros. I am a very proficient VFR pilot and have flown 20 European Countries (about 100 flights abroad) and I know I am still a somewhat limited IFR pilot and that I should practice that more, and learn more about the weather.
Although I have NO extreme anxiety I tend to “overplan”, check the weather tool many times (when it’s about the Alps) and when I go to bed a little bit excited I sometimes have a hard time falling asleep.
Just come across this very interesting thread that is 2 years old. I have many of the heightened levels of awareness first shared by Peter and confirmed by other EuroGA contributors. I wondered if these worries were less or more after 24 months of flying and experience?
