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Brexit and general aviation, UK leaving EASA, etc (merged)

The UK government decided whether or not to be part of EASA either in the long or short term. They decided not. They obviously decided not to ask for a phased in approach to licensing. So if it doesn"t appear in a treaty or agreement all EASA can do is fall back on agreements or treaties with third countries

If you don’t ask you don’t get. I am not aware of the EU negotiating team being asked about this particular situation.

France

I am not aware of the EU negotiating team being asked about this particular situation.

I don’t think anyone outside the room would be aware of what was discussed.

Since the UK did do the 2 year extension, and that was announced quite some time before the final settlement, it follows that since EASA would have known about it and didn’t, it was because they chose not to.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

But @ Peter the whole point of Brexit is that the UK could do as it wanted. It doesn’t follow that the EU or EASA should copy the UK.

France

If I move my experimental RV7 from the EU-reg to the G-reg, can I fly it with my UK-issued (ex-)EASA ppl, in the UK and anywhere in the world? If the plane had a Std CofA I understand the answer would be ‘yes’, but I read on another EuroGA post that experimentals may have a different regime.

Last Edited by mancival at 12 Jan 16:42
United Kingdom

If I move my experimental RV7 from the EU-reg to the G-reg, can I fly it with my UK-issued (ex-)EASA ppl, in the UK and anywhere in the world?

If it was an ICAO certified plane then YES.

Being Annex 1, the situation is more complex as usual

Additionally, I have not yet seen an answer to the ECAC question. If you are based in say Italy, then it is possible that a G-reg based has the same ranking as before brexit i.e. same as say a D-reg. Or it is possible that it has the same ranking as an N-reg, and then you may get this (no idea if Italy bans long term parking of foreign reg (or non EU) Annex 1 planes, but since the UK and France did that a while ago, it would be prudent to assume others will follow).

If your RV is based in the UK then your privileges for a trip abroad will be no worse than if it was an N-reg Annex 1 i.e. the usual matrix of permit requirements applies, and you can’t stay anywhere for > 28 days (except Germany which allows 180 days). And it could be better (IOW, permits needed for fewer countries) if UK remains in the ECAC framework.

The ECAC includes Norway so it isn’t necessarily the EU.

I would be surprised if anyone knew the answers to these questions already… but if (UK based) you work on the basis of N-reg Experimental privileges, that should cover all bases.

Practically speaking nobody ever cared about this stuff, for transient traffic. There have been increasing clampdowns (above link) on based foreign reg Annex 1.

Possibly @carbon_copy or @norman might know.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I always heard the rule of “2 out of 3”: if at least 2 out of 1) Plane Country of Registration, 2) License issuing Country, and 3) Country of flying, are the same Country, then all is “legal” (at least for transient traffic). Does this mean that, even with my UK-issued (ex-)EASA PPL I am legal to fly my Italian Reg RV7 in Italy and UK (but not outside Italy and UK)? This would give me a bit of “grace period” while I sort out things for the long-term in the next few weeks.

Last Edited by mancival at 12 Jan 18:07
United Kingdom

There is no 2 out of 3 rule – despite it having been mentioned all over the place for the last 100 years

License matching the aircraft reg → worldwide privileges, VFR, noncommercial, IFR with an IR. That is ICAO.

Everything else is under “exceptions, validations, etc” and varies, and is not related to ICAO. Well, ICAO recommends that licenses should be recognised mutually, but this is mostly ignored.

The privileges, if any, which a given license confers for a given aircraft reg is up to the State of Registry. The UK CAA allows any ICAO license to be used in a G-reg (currently I believe this is limited to Annex 1, but historically it was any G-reg) for VFR, and (IIRC) IFR OCAS (i.e. Class F/G) if you have an IR.

The above is nothing to do with brexit.

Re an Italian reg plane, as of 1/1/2021 Brussels does not recognise UK licenses for EASA-reg planes. OK, I know Brussels or EASA are not a “State of Registry”, nor do they have an ICAO seat, but Brussels controls the EU countries and it has directed all of them to implement this. How long this will last, nobody knows, but your best bet is to get an Italian validation of your UK PPL, via whatever process the local CAA offers.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

If it was an ICAO certified plane then YES.

An RV7 is experimental. If this has any bearing on EU pilot licensing requirements I don’t know.

Peter wrote:

This shows that EU based pilots with G-reg planes can continue to fly their planes on their existing EASA licenses for 2 more years.

The key is that they are not based in the UK.

This is highly significant.

It’s nothing of the sort. What you proposed is covered by certificates of validation, eg CAP2017, or one of the exemptions published in ORS4.

London, United Kingdom

An RV7 is experimental.

Yes, and what I wrote took that into account.

It’s nothing of the sort. What you proposed is covered by certificates of validation, eg CAP2017, or one of the exemptions published in ORS4.

I quoted your text

It probably means one can do it only in UK airspace, which is very much what Steve Jobs would call an “edge case” since very few UK based pilots are flying non UK EASA-reg planes (for reasons interesting reasons; another debate).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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