The UK industry bifurcated last year, with some schools explicitly training for UK licences only. Other schools still were training for EASA, but while you can train up to CPL outside the EU, on an integrated EASA course, the IR practical test has to be carried out in a EASA member state.
A few schools shifted operations lock stock and barrel to Europe.
The whole thing is crazy.
If the UK leaves EASA and issues separate licences going forward but has previously been an EASA member and issued EASA licences, then the only logical solution is to decree that an historic UK-issued EASA licence is both a UK licence and an EASA licence going forward. You just don’t issue any more of them.
In 2011 I gained a JAA licence valid for five years and not too long afterwards was informed I would have to pay a fee to swap it for an EASA licence at some point because no further licence would be issued when the five years was up. I viewed this as a somewhat unfair but accepted it because the quid pro quo was that the EASA licence lasted forever. Now I’m told the EASA licence I paid a fee for is not an EASA licence anymore, so I’m minded to ask the CAA for my money back!
Of course there is no incentive for EASA to do any sort of deal with the UK. In the professional sphere, if the situation @Pirho finds himself in continues then the eventual effect will be for all professional flight training in the UK to migrate to mainland Europe where (useful) EASA licences can be issued and the concept of a UK commercial licence will become an international irrelevance unless you fly for British Airways (which is Spanish anyway, so even that won’t last). What’s not to like from an EU perspective?
Pirho wrote:
Maybe recognising it means that they accept it as an ICAO compliant licence, which EASA and Brexit has little to do with?
Indeed they accept it as an ICAO-compliant licence – why wouldn’t they – but that just allows you to fly a G-reg on it worldwide, which if you want to work for an EU airline is not a lot of use.
Also, and I fully admit I am biased here, is it just me that thinks EASA is somehow being a bit petty with this?:
The UK CAA is developing a simplified application and validation procedure for recent holders of UK-issued Part FCL licenses. Does EASA plan to implement a similar application and validation procedure for recent holders of EASA licenses?
Source: UK CAA
For the time being, there is no plan to develop a simplified application and validation procedure. Accordingly any validation or conversion of a UK issued license should be done in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723.
Which I believe (correct me if wrong) also applies to conversions as well, which the CAA is allowing a simplified/easy conversion from EASA to UK PART-FCL. I am not a massive brexiteer or anything but it just seems almost juvenile.
Really what should have happened was that on 31 December, those with UK issued EASA licences continued to have those licences but must transfer to another state before revalidating any rating on it and simultaneously be issued by the CAA with a UK licence.
Then an individual would be free to renew/revalidate both and maintain both, or indeed let one expire if they wished.
the concept of a UK commercial licence will become an international irrelevance
@Graham there are a fair number of G reg airliners which will need UK crew, and easyJet, for example, has UK bases on a UK licence. This assumes the famous return to a new normal.
The UK is not an ideal fair weather base for training hence the EASA schools in the USA training up to CPL/MEP. It’s forte was IR training (courtesy UK weather and availability of training routes), and to a certain extent MPL training for UK airlines.
Which I believe (correct me if wrong) also applies to conversions as well, which the CAA is allowing a simplified/easy conversion from EASA to UK PART-FCL. I am not a massive brexiteer or anything but it just seems almost juvenile.
Indeed; it is very much a one-way thing. Why, is a matter of debate. It’s been suggested by many – and I agree – that this is all part of Brussels playing hardball, to make sure other countries don’t get the idea that leaving the club might work for them.
But the earlier stuff makes it clear (to me) that Brussels is recognising UK airline pilot papers for some transitional period. Have really all airline pilots who have UK papers but are flying non G-reg changed them to EU countries?
RobertL18C wrote:
@Graham there are a fair number of G reg airliners which will need UK crew, and easyJet, for example, has UK bases on a UK licence. This assumes the famous return to a new normal.
As I understand it those G-reg airliners can also be flown on any EASA licence because the UK is treating EASA licences as fully equivalent, so logically the qualification of choice in the pool of employees (who look to maximise their employability) would become the EASA licence?
Perhaps e.g. British Airways might require a UK-issued licence as a condition of employment, but they are pretty much a Spanish company now anyway so how long will that last?
RobertL18C wrote:
The UK industry bifurcated last year, with some schools explicitly training for UK licences only. Other schools still were training for EASA, but while you can train up to CPL outside the EU, on an integrated EASA course, the IR practical test has to be carried out in a EASA member state.
Somehow it’s following the old shift between DTO/RFT and big ATOs? those that could train for NPPL (maybe up to CPL) in unlicenced (grass) airfields and those who train for MEIR in licenced airfields and can send you on European tour, with exception of more approval costs !
Someone told me IR practical test will be a real limitation for their international students (who needs EU visa) which is 50% of the UK ATO MEIR/ATPL business
But the earlier stuff makes it clear (to me) that Brussels is recognising UK airline pilot papers for some transitional period. Have really all airline pilots who have UK papers but are flying non G-reg changed them to EU countries?
I have no data, but I think most airline pilots in the EU will hold licences with the authority of their operator. Of the two European airlines I have worked for, one of them absolutely no exceptions required you to have your licence issued in their state, whilst the other one was almost the same however would review on a case by case basis for special circumstances. It causes a headache for the training departments to try and keep examiner validations with various countries paired up with the correct pilots otherwise. I don’t really see that Brussels is making much of a concession in doing what you say.
I think Graham is correct though in that from the CAAs point of view an EASA licence is fine for G reg.
The main problem from an employment point of view is that if you look at 99% of pilot job adverts in Europe, they require you to hold an EASA licence. For now an EASA licence holder can easily (current pandemic inflicted industry condition aside) get a job in the EU or UK, whereas the UK PART-FCL holders are sort of stuffed unless an agreement is come to.
