Well, I don’t see any practical difference. It’s more than 4? years since the UK decided to leave, and at least 2 years ago since the CAA here came out with info regarding what people with UK licences had to do (convert to non UK – ASAP).
Without trying to get too bogged down in the ins and outs of brexit as a whole, as someone who is required to hold a UK issued licence for my job, the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. At a time when plenty of jobs are at risk and one wants to be as employable as possible, my licence is no longer an EASA licence, which means I am not eligible to work for most EU airlines. If I want to get an EASA licence again it means jumping through more hoops, with the significant one being the need to sit all 14 ATPL exams again, which I have no desire nor time to do or spend the money on doing.
I am hoping this changes in the near future, but as it stands, despite having already completed 14 EASA exams an completed an EASA ATPL LST, EASA no longer recognise that. It seems even more bizarre to me that within the last 5 years my licence was even issued by a current EASA state, so despite there being records of me being eligible to hold that that licence, I no longer am allowed it.
with the significant one being the need to sit all 14 ATPL exams again
That doesn’t make any sense. There is a variety of conversion/validation options, and the 14 JAA/EASA “ATPL” exam passes are valid for ever once you actually got the CPL/IR (which can then become an ATPL once you have 500hrs in a multi pilot cockpit). There is an expiry at 7 years (of basically no flying) but that also doesn’t apply if flying on another ICAO IR. Are you sure you have not been totally misinformed, @pirho?
Peter, I certainly hope I have been totally misinformed. The problem appears to be not that the exams have expired, but that as a UK PART-FCL license holder it is appears to be taken that the exams are a different regime (even though they weren’t at the time).
Edit just to add, this is to do with conversion as opposed to validation.
As per EASA:
I am a holder of a UK issued ATPL and would like to convert that license into a license from an EASA Member State. How should I proceed?
Your UK issued ATPL license will no longer be valid to operate an aircraft registered in an EASA Member State as of January 1, 2021. Unless you were able to transfer that license to an EASA Member State before January 1, 2021, you will need to convert it into an EU license in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723. You can apply for that conversion to any of the EASA Member State competent authorities.
The UK becomes a third country in this respect so:
Holders of an ATPL issued by or on behalf of a third country in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention who have completed the experience requirements for the issue of an ATPL in the relevant aircraft category as set out in Subpart F of Annex I to this Regulation may be given full credit as regards the requirements to undergo a training course prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations and the skill test, provided that the third country licence contains a valid type rating for the aircraft to be used for the ATPL skill test.
This is what I have been given from the a current EASA NAA.
The way I read that is that I don’t have to go through an ATO to do the exams, but they still need completed along with a test. This is the same (as far as I know) as the FAA → EASA conversion.
As I said, I would love to find out that I have been told completely incorrectly.
My understanding is that @pirho ‘s understanding is correct. Colleagues who did not get their SOLI by year end are expecting they will have to sit the exams. Now they may also be wrong.
My ATPL exams were pre EASA, so if I wanted to work in the EU, and get a work permit and visa, I expect it would be a lengthy process.
That doesn’t make sense. What about that concession for commercial pilots, posted here not many days ago? That’s was a part of Brussels’ official position, to keep airlines flying.
I would have liked to have SOLI’d last year, but unfortunately I wasn’t able to do so due to employer licence requirements.
It’s all going to be a mess if there isn’t some form of deal done between the CAA and EASA. Some people have done EASA exams, some have done pre-EASA exams, some will already have records of licencing with current EASA member states, some won’t. the wording for ATPL requirements for example is " Examination. Applicants for an ATPL shall demonstrate a level of knowledge appropriate to the privileges granted in the following subjects: …..etc", surely I for example can demonstrate that by showing proof of EASA exam passes, even the ATO I did my exams with retains EASA approval… A mess!
That doesn’t make sense. What about that concession for commercial pilots, posted here not many days ago? That’s was a part of Brussels’ official position, to keep airlines flying.
I have not seen this, can you reference/link?
I’m not sure how much that makes a difference. What is ‘recognising as valid’? Another EASA quote:
The UK CAA is developing a simplified application and validation procedure for recent holders of UK-issued Part FCL licenses. Does EASA plan to implement a similar application and validation procedure for recent holders of EASA licenses?
Source: UK CAA
For the time being, there is no plan to develop a simplified application and validation procedure. Accordingly any validation or conversion of a UK issued license should be done in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723.
So validation of a UK licence in EASA is just third country validation in principle. Conversion is third country. Maybe recognising it means that they accept it as an ICAO compliant licence, which EASA and Brexit has little to do with?
Either way, validations are one thing, but for employment purpose it is actually HOLDING an EASA licence that is relevant, and they seem to state in numerous places that we are are third country like anywhere else.
I don’t know how ATPL training at UK schools deals with this. I know Bristol GS (where I did my ATPL exams) hold a separate non-UK EASA approval, so I guess this will be something looked at?
