Right, with the added complexity on top of this description that IR doesn’t work that way in the UK. Obtaining end to end clearance doesn’t appear to be practical for typical terrestrial flights, so even with full IR, you’re still stuck begging for clearances or sticking to OCAS.
That is wrong.
IR works fine in the UK. You need to fly in CAS. Gallois had some trouble by going off into G and thinking it will “just work” like it does in France where there is almost zero GA traffic at significant altitudes and ATC are super chilled especially if you speak French. Over the years, lots of people have done this mistake here. They somehow get a validated route and think they can fly it 
One guy I know got one right across Luton, Stansted, Gatwick, the lot, at 4000ft, and flew it. ATC just exploded, of course. He didn’t get busted; this was before Mr Gratton & Co got the CAA into the full pilot busting swing. Lots of threads on how to do it right, on EuroGA.
The gotcha for proper IR/IFR are that the flight has to be in CAS. That is how IFR works worldwide, generally. And if you look at the UK map you see lots of G at high levels like FL150 (going to Ireland for example). So you need to fly high, so you need a capable plane, and oxygen.
Same elsewhere in Europe except in general there is more CAS lower down, so you can hack around Europe (see my trip reports) at FL100 or so quite well.
Ultimately, VFR (with or without the IMCR) and IFR (with an IR) are different tools for a job. If you want to see examples of IR flight, I have posted the video link. I know watching videos is tedious but
So what’s the deal with using SkyDemon as the primary source of navigation? Although it does appear to be the most useful navigation aid available to us at first blush, I was under the impression that this was not allowed.
“Primary” is not defined. It is social media pilot imagination.
In Europe you need to carry an IFR approved GPS for enroute flight above FL095 generally, which doesn’t affect you with an IMCR.
See Graham’s previous responses.
Peter wrote:
“Primary” is not defined. It is social media pilot imagination.
I hear this term a lot actually.
To me it seems quite simple: whatever you do, wherever you go, you have a primary source of navigation. It’s the stuff that tells you what to follow and when you’re at destination. For example, day VFR in ground sight, you generally visual landmarks as a primary mean. If you fly on top, your primary navigation comes from VORs etc.
More precisely, you NEED something that is reliable enough, even if it is not what you actually USE. Officially accepted means of primary sources of navigation, if they don’t outright give you a certain level of guarantee that they will work, provide two things: first, they all have clear “FAIL” indicators so you don’t actually get lost by false indications; and second, if they DO fail, then nobody will question you for asking for directions to ask ATC or declaring an emergency if things get hot. So overall I think this concept makes a lot of sense. Especially in IFR.
I don’t think flying IMC with SkyDemon on a iPad is a good idea, if you don’t have a backup plan ready (or at least planned for in case of) with VORs or a certified GPS.
Right. So the crux I’m presently tangling with is finding VOR to VOR routes that avoid CAS.
@Lee, IMCR gives you ability to fly IFR outside Class A, so you could do absolutely the same things as with IR (even fly on IFR Eurocontrol FP in some cases), but you cannot enter Class A, that is the primary limitation. Another one is that visibility should be 1500m or above, although not that important when flying SEP – you do want to be able to land in case of an engine failure, so many pilots set fairly high personal minima, like 700ft+, etc.
And I don’t agree with Peter’s words when he says VFR & IFR are the same – when you cross some Class D VFR, controller will direct you with VRPs, under IFR you could just ask for vectors (more convenient); also places like Southend (and reportedly Liverpool/Manchester) will more easily give you crossing IFR. And obviously you are not allowed to enter IMC under VFR (plus you must select 2000 squawk if you are not flying under some other code, so not 7000).
You still need to have some primary means of nav (VOR/ADF/panel-mount GPS/…) of course, and if you fly in CAS (C,D,E) you must have Mode-S.
Last two posts are wrong at multiple levels.
Peter wrote:
Last two posts are wrong at multiple levels.
Please elaborate. Thank you!
I’ve already written all I can think of. I was referring to posts 33 and 34. But with a phone only…
Not sure what there is to disagree about 34. I’m finding identifying routes to follow with the in-built navigation systems that also avoid Control Areas to be tricky.
