gallois wrote:
Then nothing, then change of frequency then DCT to can’t remember exact point. But I kept getting sent.to points along the south coast and at every change of frequency was asked what service I required. If I asked for deconfliction or procedural I was told that they were sorry they could not provide that service due to workload.
My Eurocontrol validated flight plan took me north of Southampton and to the North of London.
This is a great example of how confusing an IFR flight (with validated flight plan, no less) can be in the UK with its swathes of entirely uncontrolled airspace and fragmented ATC services in these areas.
Exeter is surrounded by uncontrolled airspace; there is a bit of class A above starting at FL65 leading roughly north-south, but that is narrow. Towards Southampton it is around 80 miles until you hit any controlled airspace below FL95, so for that part of the route you are in controlled airspace, and no different from a any other flight in that airspace – VFR, IFR with IR(R), or IR with flight plan.
And this is the key. Outside controlled airspace, there is no appreciable difference between IFR and VFR flights in the UK at all.
So instead of the full IFR service, you will get whatever service you want. You can choose to not talk to anyone unil you get close to your controlled airspace joining point, but IFR you typically ask for a “traffic service”. BTW – “Deconfliction Service” is HORRIBLE, it requires the controller to steer you miles around every target, impossible on a day where there is VFR traffic, and unnecessary on a bad day. Only airliners ever ask for it. That is why all units ask you which service you require. And you are in charge of your route. You want to steer around a TCU? No problem, no need to tell anyone, just do it. Maybe TELL the controller what you are doing as you are changing your route a bit, but you are in uncontrolled airspace. Next waypoint? Your problem.
Same as on a VFR flight, as you get out of range of one radar unit you say goodbye and contact the next one, which again wants to know everything from scratch, including which service you require (remember the "fragmented " bit above?). Sometimes you get a handover, depends on the unit and local arrangements.
Once you get close to the class A boundary, you then need to ask to contact whoever is in charge of that controlled airspace, and they should have your flight plan, and they will then finally give you a “Radar Control Service” and you are now propely “in the system”. And with Southend having controlled airspace up to the London TMA floor, you will stay in the system until landing.
Airfields which are closer to Class A have slicker arrangements and hand you over to the controller in charge of whichever bit of controlled airspace you want to join, but that works where you join within 10-20 miles away from the airport, not 80.
The disadvantages of this are of course obvious. Higher pilot and controller workload, risk of not receiving the controlled airspace clearance if there is a flight plan SNAFU, and (theoretically) higher collission risk. Especially for pilots who are used to end-to-end full ATC when flying IFR, which is pretty much everyone else in Europe except the UK.
The advantage is that anyone could conduct that flight entirely without flight plan, IFPS route shenanigans, slots, and trying to get a word in edgewise on London Control – as long as they stay out of controlled airspace.
Yes, we could put our crusty g430 to work.
Although it will need a good amount of love before doing so in anger.
Cobalt wrote:
The advantage is that anyone could conduct that flight entirely without flight plan, IFPS route shenanigans, slots, and trying to get a word in edgewise on London Control – as long as they stay out of controlled airspace.
… and dont’ require any service – it is not uncommon to be denied any service. Although Peter here, for example, was unable to enter CAS on an IFR flight plan after departure from Shoreham.
Another challenge is that it is impossible to fly some distance at an altitude and not cross some CAS – there is always some Class A or Class C somewhere. And even if you’ve flown before on an IFPS FP (and they dropped you out to Class G), still guarantees you nothing in the UK. Oh, and if you are are 2000kg+ aircraft and submit an IFR flight plan, you WILL pay for the whole route, but it might so happen that you won’t get that service. :(
“- Request traffic service.
- Limited due to controller workload”
Unless you are an airliner, you are a dirt under NATS’ feet.
Reminds me of Soviet-style “service” – “take what you are given and SCRAM!!!”.
So – back to the topic – how would one conduct the flight Exeter – Southend with “only” an IR(R)?
Simple answer – exactly as oen would conduct the same flight VFR. Altitude to taste and below the class A airspace. Your route? Whatever you fancy and can navigate. Personally I might still route along VORs where they are just on the way (just in case the GPS wizardry packs it in).
En-route, get a traffic service from Exeter, then Yeovilton, Boscombe Down, Farnborough West and then North, and finally – Southend. On initiall call to Southend, you request “Traffic Service and vectors to ILS”, and that is it. Position reports and route information has to be no different or more precise than on any other flight. Of course major nav aids are helpful, but city names are fine.
The only difference is that for parts of the flight, you can’t see much outside. Hey, most people these days stare at their iPads anyway, so it’s actually the same. ;-)
Eurocontrol IFR UK flying posts moved to a new merged thread
Although Peter here, for example, was unable to enter CAS on an IFR flight plan after departure from Shoreham.
With the IMCR, a FP is irrelevant because it isn’t distributed by the UK system, upon receipt from Eurocontrol.
If you are referring to IFR at IR altitudes, please use the abive linked thread.
So what’s the deal with using SkyDemon as the primary source of navigation? Although it does appear to be the most useful navigation aid available to us at first blush, I was under the impression that this was not allowed.
I have an IR(R) and agree it’s a bit confusing between the theory and practice. In reality – once you are flying solo – you need to come up with a hybrid of instrumentation that does the job based on your aircraft and keeps you safe and legal. As others have said, most flights become a hybrid of VFR and IFR and unless you want to fly IFR OCAS the whole way – you could spend the cruise VFR on top with patchy overcast below and then switch to IFR a Class D transit , then back to VFR in Class G and then into IFR again for the approach.
My aircraft has dual G5’s and a GTN650. I will plan the flight in Skydemon using Airways reporting points. Then in the aircraft I transpose the Skydemon route into the GTN650 and fly the magenta line with wind correction… though if I’m not in IMC to be honest I find I’m glancing more at Skydemon to check track.
I then use the GTN 650 + G5 to fly the approach and Skydemon for the approach plate overlay. I can’t overstate how useful that is for situational awareness vs a printed approach chart. (Prize to the person that spots the error here ;) )
For your flight Barton (EGCB) to Southend (EGMC) if you are using the 430 and CDI I would route DCT TENSO DCT ULSAX DCT ELNOD DCT KEMPY DCT. Takes a while to enter but does give the engine time to warm up :) That gives you 115nm in a straight line OCAS to focus on instrument flying.
If you’re doing VOR to VOR then it does get more fiddly but still ok. DCT POL DCT BKY DCT BPK DCT LAM DCT. Issue is… I think they just turned off some of those VORs.
No reg in GA states how you should navigate i.e. what equipment is used.
There are various national and/or airspace rules, and possibly a Type Certificate (POH) equipment requirement, but those all specify equipment to be carried.
The above settles the “can Gadget X be used” for ever 
Whether I would fly with SD or another satnav app running on a tablet, and nothing else, the answer is NO. Tablets lose GPS fixes or just shut down.
On the thread topic, as far as “the system” is concerned you are a VFR OCAS flight, with no service obligation. Repeat: with no service obligation. That in turn drives all the flight planning.
There is some anecdotal evidence that if you call yourself “IFR” you sound like a “pro” and are more likely to get a CAS transit. This may be true but could also be because if you are actually in IMC, then given the likelihood that you are in IMC at 2300ft (LTMA base 2500ft, etc) 
almost nobody else will be flying so ATC has little to do. To prove this one would need to do a lot of flights… Also anecdotally transits are more likely if you are good on the radio, or fly a type which only “proper” pilots fly (in ATC perception).
I strongly recommend to never set 2000 unless instructed by ATC. The reason is that, on a VFR flight, if you find yourself in a bit of Class E you will have busted CAS and there will be an MOR and you will get busted by the CAA. The data is computer-generated instantly. The airspace in question is primarily the Class E near Farnborough. It is a scandal that they got that “CAS” for the tiny number of bizjets carrying (according to their own data) 1.8 passengers on average. Always speak to Farnborough if you can (they are a radar unit so have some use), however.
Enable IFR, then auto-download plates, then they are in the airport information.
The blue pins mean they are geo referenced.
