Hi all,
I have a ferry trip coming up this November and I have a few questions. Flight is from EHLE (Holland) to LHKV (Hungary) and will be done under IFR. I have planned an overnight stop in Germany – EDDN. The aircraft is a C172M, IFR equipped of course, no oxygen available. Flight level will be between FL70-FL100. Would be great if you guys could answer the following questions:
1. Is 8.33kHz already mandatory for IFR flights in Europe or only after the 31st of december?
2. LHKV is a VFR airfield, what is a good time to cancel IFR? Go down to the minimum vectoring altitude?
3. I have flown IFR in Holland, Belgium and Germany. Are the procedures generally the same in Hungary or do they differ much? AIP seems straightforward.
4. I am planning to use the handheld Garmin Aera 500 GPS – any feedback?
5. Any suggestions on a (maybe better) fuel stop other than EDDN which is roughly halfway EHLE-LHKV?
6. Good websites for weather data in Hungary/Austria/Czech/Slovakia region. I use Ogimet as an aid in cloud tops forecasting and I have read Peter2000 article on this.
I am using rocket route for route planning and E(LO) charts / GPS during the flight. Weather will be the main focus for this trip since the freezing level can be quite low during november.
Thanks for your feedback!
1. Is 8.33kHz already mandatory for IFR flights in Europe or only after the 31st of december?
AFAIK yes, nowadays even some sectors below FL100 have 8.33kHz frequencies.
3. I have flown IFR in Holland, Belgium and Germany. Are the procedures generally the same in Hungary or do they differ much? AIP seems straightforward.
Hungary is very convenient. Even FIS employs ATCOs, so flight rule changes are usually instantaneous, and you don’t even need to change who you’re talking to
E(LO) charts / GPS during the flight.
What for? I never looked at an E(LO) chart again after the theoretical exam…
I have never been to LHKV, but you have LHSM nearby which is an excellent small airport. If necessary, fly an approach there and proceed visually to your destination, there is no terrain worth mentioning in between.
AFAIK, 8.33 is mandatory since January 2014. You won’t encounter it East of Frankfurt in your altitude band. Don’t know about the situation further to the West.
Concerning preparation, I’m surely not the only one here to wholeheartedly recommend the Autorouter …
I fly regularly to that airfield under IFR… In general IFR canceled below 4000FT in Hungary and flight plan can be closed in flight with Budapest info just before landing.
Hard part is getting over the mountains. More often you go along Linz close to Vienna and then bear south ATC is very helpful if the weather is not playing along. If you need help of any sort let me know,its my second home base.. 
Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated! So it seems like a 8.33 kHz radio should be fitted. Still looking for the documentation where it states it is mandatory.
So it seems like a 8.33 kHz radio should be fitted. Still looking for the documentation where it states it is mandatory.
Why don’t you fly VFR? A C172M is severely altitude limited and IFR of very limited use. VFR in Germany is dead easy for foreign pilots as there is very litte airspace in the way and FIS is very good. The legal requirement for 8.33kHz carriage in Germany and other states is spelled out in this EU directive. VFR you don’t need 8.33kHz which is a very expensive upgrade, costing about 25-50% of the market value of a C172M. I’ve had one for years and sold it with a zero time engine so I know the market 
The aircraft is a C172M, IFR equipped of course
If you want to comply with regulations, here are the some for German airspace:
- autopilot with altitude hold or a copilot (qualified to do IFR radio communication)
- DME
- 2 VOR with Annex 10
- 2 VHF at least one with 8.33kHz
- B-RNAV (i.e. certified GPS)
- 406 MHz ELT
- 406 MHz ELT
OOPPS, I can’t fly over Germany again. At least till Dec 4th, then I can legally use my PLB.
I would do it VFR also if you don’t have the 8.33 Khz box your radio skills won’t suffer as VFR you need to talk yourself trough it, but as Achimba mentions Info is very good in Germany…When going north of Ingolstadt VFR you will be handed over to Donau Radar if I recall, as you need clearance to cross the Restricted Area where they are toying around with fast Jet’s. (I had once a Eurofighter coming out of the clouds in front of me)..according ATC unidentified traffic 3 miles ahead at your 12 o clock position…yeah right…
Only downside with VFR is that you need to X the mountains west of Vienna and my experience is that Wien info is not to happy to let you fly in Shwegat TMA VFR.
Ceiling may be a problem if you want to X VFR. You can go all the way to Vienna VFR and stay in teh Danube valley and then fly along Bad Voslau etc…but Vienna airspace will push you down
Experienced local pilots fly below terrain in certain valleys to cross from Austria to Hungary…not my cup of tea….
Experienced local pilots fly below terrain in certain valleys to cross from Austria to Hungary…not my cup of tea….
These are not really mountains, but the hills of the Wienerwald (“Viennese Wood”) which can be safely crossed at 4.000 feet from the area of St. Pölten in the direction of LOAV. The “real” mountains (Schneeberg, Rax) are quite far to the South.
If the weather is too bad even for that, you should be able to negotiate a crossing of the LOWW CTR along the River Danube with Wien Information (which will then hand you over to the tower).
Still, I would do it IFR for all the time and hassle saved …
the hills of the Wienerwald
Ah – Geschichten von dem Wienerwald was always my favourite in all the glorious Strauss repertoire – sweet memories.
On topic: isn’t it a lot less fuss, for only a slight detour, to route via Czechia and Slovakia?
I know my position is a-typical, but the Austrian airspace is so unwelcoming that I have given up thinking of entering it.
For a VFR PPL the differences will be less marked, and still less for an IFR PPL.
PS LHKV is a place of memory, too: it is where I bought my bird. We went to collect her with a trailer behind my famous blue van – close on 3000 kms from Friday afternoon till Sunday afternoon… Sad sight of derelict An-2’s rotting away, as on almost every aerodrome in formerly “socialist” countries.
Some images on http://imgur.com/a/Vquco – I tried to drag & drop them here – from my own PC! – but only errors resulted, perhaps they are too big? +/- 2000 pix wide, all of them.
