which you seem not familiar with
could we lead the discussion without that arrogance, please?
Well, then I suggest a look at the VFR map and the Munich approach procedures (or any other airport with an inverted wedding cake structure). You will see that C starts at 3500ft up to FL100 (where there is always C in Germany, besides right in front of the Alps). No way ATC will let an airliner intercept the ILS below 3500ft, the procedure has it at 5000ft which is what they do. If they do an intercept further out, the inverted wedding cake makes sure it’s always in C. That’s the whole idea behind this design after all.
It’s interesting how you always advocate breaking the rules – and then you use the rules to prove that something will never happen. … Does that mean that everybody except you follows them?
As I said you don’t have to show me that map. I know every meter of that area. I also know that the airliner (see image) was probably very close to the lower limit of C. My estimate was that he was below, but probably he was still in. But whatever, there’s really no tolerance in that area for a/c flying in IMC without a clearance.
Of course, at your farmstrip, far away from a bigger city, you can always do that (;-))
PS: You are probably right about the ILS. If he intercepted the ILS in horizontal flight, he was above 3500
I have never spoken about flying in airspace C without a clearance. That keeps coming from you only. Why would one do that?
If one was flying in E without clearance (which is not allowed but for which in reality you couldn’t be held accountable for), why on earth would this be any different in the Munich area compared to my farmstrip area? In the UK, instead of E this would all be G and everybody could be flying merrily around, with and without transponder, in VMC and IMC.
Also I have not advocated breaking the rules. I have just said that I don’t scud run because I think it is unnecessarily dangerous. I used to do that but I don’t do it anymore.
Flyer59 wrote:
Of course, at your farmstrip, far away from a bigger city, you can always do that
At least Stuttgart has an airport, and a pretty efficient one, unlike Munich. But then again Munich isn’t even a city, but a 1.5 million people village
Well, it’s a village of 300 square kilometers, which is 1/3 of NYC, so it is a pretty large village.
It would also help if you recognized the “;-)”
Munich doesn’t have an airport? Hmmmmm ….
Also I have not advocated breaking the rules. I have just said that I don’t scud run because I think it is unnecessarily dangerous. I used to do that but I don’t do it anymore.
That’s not completely correct. For years now you have commented ironically and ridiculed me when i argued that I would not enter IMC without a clearance (which is the rule, here, and “here” is not the UK)
Did i write C? I think what i meant was flying in E, close to C, and in IMC.
You do it, i don’t, let’s leave it at that.
PS: I don’t see why it is should be so dangerous to fly in 500 ft AGL if the visibility is good.
In the context of this forum, an “airport” is where we can land…
Anyway, there is absolutely nothing special about the airspace around Munich, it’s the standard design used by DFS for all major airports and found in identical form in many areas of Germany.
Flyer59 wrote:
Did i write C? I think what i meant was flying in E, close to C, and in IMC.
E is not C so your argument about airliners is moot, this is what I was trying to say and illustrated with images. Every place having a lot of CAT in airspace E is now a RMZ in Germany, that is new with SERA and adds to safety in areas like Friedrichshafen that has quite some CAT but no inverted wedding cakes.
(which is the rule, here, and “here” is not the UK)
Jawohl!
There’s enough places to land, most not farther away from the center than Biggin Hill, Toussous Le Noble or any GA airport around NYC. Whue the situation is not ideal it is not such a drama to drive 35 minutes /from my apartment in downtown) to EDML.
On many days you can also land at EDNX, 5 miles from downtown, I just did it.
How long do you drive?
Flyer59 wrote:
Well, it’s a village of 300 square kilometers, which is 1/3 of NYC, so it is a pretty large village.
Well, the comment about Munich being a village isn’t about the area, but about the mindset of the indigenous people. In case you didn’t know.
Flyer59 wrote:
How long do you drive?
10 minutes.
