Peter wrote:
The patent is just as worthless because anybody with two bob to rub together can and will challenge it, and rest assured that absolutely everybody in this particular game has way more than two bob
I was once told that of challenged patents in Sweden, more than half were declared invalid!
chflyer wrote:
No path at this time for experimental aircraft to use it.
I don’t understand this. Certainly in the US, experimentals don’t need to be approved – it’s up to the builder/owner what fuel to use. There is no STC-like process for an experimental.
Peter wrote:
Has any of the (e.g. the LAA) ever ruled on this?
The LAA goes with the engine manufacturer, e.g. for Lycomings and UL91, they say “If it’s on Lycoming’s list for this fuel, you can use it”. Mogas is a bit different due to the ethanol content.
I was once told that of challenged patents in Sweden, more than half were declared invalid!
Surprised it is that low 
Maybe Swedes don’t have enough money left after paying all the tax 
I reckon the majority of tech patents filed in last 20 years are bogus. And I mean “obviously bogus” to any player in the relevant field. OK, “obviously” doesn’t cut the mustard legally, but…
I wonder if these funny patents might be a factor in GAMI not apparently going anywhere fast. I mean, if I was an oil company and this old geezer with an impressive hipster beard
was trying to get me to sign a manufacturing license, holding an NDA in one hand and a wad of worthless patents in the other hand, what would I do? I would wait to see who else is doing what, and probably expect him to not outlast the patents which will anyway be commercially worthless by the time they are 10 years old.
Actually I would offer him a 1% royalty, but I bet he’s looking for a bit more.
Lycomings and UL91, they say “If it’s on Lycoming’s list for this fuel, you can use it”. Mogas is a bit different due to the ethanol content.
Yes; I don’t get it either.
And those running off “mogas” (whatever that means – probably car petrol) won’t be concerned because 100UL will replace only 100LL so if you are currently running off “mogas”, you obviously have a source of “mogas”. Most mogas users can’t or don’t want to use 100LL.
Mr Braly did sign up on EuroGA in the early days but never posted.
Slightly off topic but as part of an experiment Toussus le Noble and Lognes will have a fuel pump for UL Aero Super +(SP98 EN 228)
It is accepted that it is not suitable for all engines and/or aircraft.
The experiment is being carried out by a group consisting of Totalenergies, Aeroports de Paris, FFA, the comité regional aéronautique ile de france, and members of the UAT (users of the aerodrome Toussus le Noble).
I suppose they will want to look at demand and whether or not it is worth rolling out across the country.
I do not know the cost per litre and IMO this will significantly affect demand, but we will see.
gallois wrote:
as part of an experiment Toussus le Noble and Lognes will have a fuel pump for UL Aero Super
Lognes has UL91 already, most engine that can do one can do the other, so it’ll be only down to price.
Toussus only has 100LL, so if it is competitively priced and people care to get the STC or standard change there will be an actual experiment.
Peter wrote:
how to make “100UL” has been known since around WW2 and with any chemical composition a small variation may deliver the same result while evading a patent
True. For example, technical xylene (mix of isomers) has a RON around 130 and a MON around 110, and costs cheaper than avgas. However, its vapour is more toxic than avgas and somewhat carcinogenic, and some elastomers resistant to avgas will swell and eventually degrade in xylene. On the other hand, it’s easy to reduce exposure to vapour and to change the hoses in the fuel system to a more resistant material.
98 RON fuel cannot remotely be an “answer” to a 100 MON fuel. Quite different target groups.
Perhaps you need to tell Total.
Here is the article published on FFA
Expérimentation de distribution « UL AERO SUPER + »
Une expérimentation de distribution d’un nouveau carburant aéronautique vient de débuter sur les aérodromes de Toussus-Le-Noble et de Lognes (en région parisienne) : « UL AERO SUPER + » est un carburant spécifique SP98, norme EN228, dédié à un usage aéronautique.
Cette expérimentation est le fruit d’un travail commun mené par TotalEnergies, le Groupe Aéroports de Paris, la Fédération Française Aéronautique, le Comité Régional Aéronautique Ile-de-France ainsi que les membres de l’UAT (Usagers de l’aérodrome de Toussus-Le-Noble).
Vous trouverez ci-dessous les spécifications, fournies par TotalEnergies, de ce nouveau carburant aéronautique.
A Toussus-Le-Noble, la station d’avitaillement se situe sur le parking public avion près de la tour de contrôle, et à Lognes à la place de la cuve d’UL91. Cliquez ici pour consulter la note d’information complète sur Toussus-Le-Noble.
Une information aéronautique est publiée sous forme d’un SUP AIP (voir ci-dessous pour Toussus-Le-Noble) qui explicite l’ensemble des consignes d’utilisation. La mise en service des stations d’avitaillement seront activées par NOTAM.
Attention :
L’UL AERO SUPER + (SP98 EN228) n’est homologué que pour certains moteurs et avions.
La sélection du carburant aviation adapté à votre aéronef relève de la responsabilité du pilote.
Pour éviter un accident grave, nous vous invitons à vérifier que ce produit est bien adapté à votre aéronef.
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Expérimentation de distribution « UL AERO SUPER + »
Une expérimentation de distribution d’un nouveau carburant aéronautique vient de débuter sur les aérodromes de Toussus-Le-Noble et de Lognes (en région parisienne) : « UL AERO SUPER + » est un carburant spécifique SP98, norme EN228, dédié à un usage aéronautique.
Cette expérimentation est le fruit d’un travail commun mené par TotalEnergies, le Groupe Aéroports de Paris, la Fédération Française Aéronautique, le Comité Régional Aéronautique Ile-de-France ainsi que les membres de l’UAT (Usagers de l’aérodrome de Toussus-Le-Noble).
Vous trouverez ci-dessous les spécifications, fournies par TotalEnergies, de ce nouveau carburant aéronautique.
A Toussus-Le-Noble, la station d’avitaillement se situe sur le parking public avion près de la tour de contrôle, et à Lognes à la place de la cuve d’UL91. Cliquez ici pour consulter la note d’information complète sur Toussus-Le-Noble.
Une information aéronautique est publiée sous forme d’un SUP AIP (voir ci-dessous pour Toussus-Le-Noble) qui explicite l’ensemble des consignes d’utilisation. La mise en service des stations d’avitaillement seront activées par NOTAM.
Attention :
L’UL AERO SUPER + (SP98 EN228) n’est homologué que pour certains moteurs et avions.
La sélection du carburant aviation adapté à votre aéronef relève de la responsabilité du pilote.
Pour éviter un accident grave, nous vous invitons à vérifier que ce produit est bien adapté à votre aéronef.
Google translate
“UL AERO SUPER +” distribution experiment
An experiment in the distribution of a new aeronautical fuel has just begun at the Toussus-Le-Noble and Lognes aerodromes (in the Paris region): “UL AERO SUPER +” is a specific SP98 fuel, EN228 standard, dedicated to one
This experiment is the result of joint work carried out by TotalEnergies, the Aéroports de Paris Group, the French Aeronautical Federation, the Ile-de-France Regional Aeronautical Committee as well as members of the UAT (Users of the Toussus aerodrome -The-Noble).
Below you will find the specifications, provided by TotalEnergies, of this new aeronautical fuel.
In Toussus-Le-Noble, the refueling station is located in the public aircraft parking lot near the control tower, and in Lognes in place of the UL91 tank. Click here to consult the complete information note on Toussus-Le-Noble.
Aeronautical information is published in the form of an AIP SUP (see below for Toussus-Le-Noble) which explains all the instructions for use. The commissioning of refueling stations will be activated by NOTAM.
Attention :
UL AERO SUPER + (SP98 EN228) is only approved for certain engines and aircraft.
Selecting the right aviation fuel for your aircraft is the responsibility of the pilot.
To avoid a serious accident, we invite you to check that this product is suitable for your aircraft.
