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Latest on 8.33 requirements (merged)

Paperwork aside (many years ago I used to know a pilot based down there, with a plane full of really interesting and very useful mods, mostly off the books ) you need to get somebody who is willing and able to dive in there, find the various wires, and know where they go on the new radio. Most avionics guys are just wiremen; they follow a wiring diagram.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The frustrating thing is that I’m quite capable of doing it all myself. I spent my entire career as an engineer with NATS (or Board of Trade CAA when I started) starting with a three year Radio Technician apprenticeship at Bletchley Park learning to solder 164-way Plessey plugs! Then maintaining all the ground equipment (radar, comms, navaids) before progressing up the NATS food-chain.

Of course, the ground equipment side of avionics was (and still is as far as I know) an unlicensed area. Certainly in the U.K. anyway.

I have the installation manuals for all the related pieces and I could quite easily design the new wiring (it couldn’t be any simpler). And then do the actual installation – if it wasn’t a certified aircraft.

Is it possible to work as an unlicensed engineer under supervision of a B2 and then get the installation inspected and signed off?

Old dog learning new tricks

Certainly; most aircraft work is done by people not (yet) qualified, working under the supervision of whoever.

An interesting career

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Iv’e had a KRT2 for a year now, because I had to go to 8.33. The transmission is ok but the reception is poor. I am a radio engineer so I know the installation is sound, and I’ve tried both 1/4 and 1/2 wave antennas. The previous Microair was much better and the Icom A6 has excellent reception but only 1.5W tx carrier. I should have paid more and got a Trig.

United Kingdom

I might be flying a Spanish Registered CofA aircraft from Southern Spain to the UK next month. It currently is not 8.33 equipped and it also has a mode C transponder. planned route is: LEJR-LECU-LESO-LFBH-LFOH-UK. Will I be restricted at those aerodromes/en route with who I can speak to?

London Area

In French airspace, if you are VFR there is not a problem at least not until mext year I think it is when 8.33 becomes mandatory. IFR would be a problem on both accounts.

France

Callum wrote:

I might be flying a Spanish Registered CofA aircraft from Southern Spain to the UK next month. It currently is not 8.33 equipped and it also has a mode C transponder. planned route is: LEJR-LECU-LESO-LFBH-LFOH-UK. Will I be restricted at those aerodromes/en route with who I can speak to?
Strictly speaking, since the beginning of this year you are not allowed to fly anywhere where you have to use the radio unless you are 8.33 equipped — VFR or IFR.

From a regulatory point of view it doesn’t matter if you will actually need a 8.33 channel or not. Of course, from a practical point of view, unless you are requested to use an 8.33 channel the only way anyone would notice is if you got ramp checked.

gallois wrote:

In French airspace, if you are VFR there is not a problem at least not until mext year I think it is when 8.33 becomes mandatory.

8.33 is already mandatory but it might be that right now VFR will never be required to use an 8.33 channel in France.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The UK has gone to 8.33 too at many places, but see this – the 8.33 frequencies are mostly really same as the old 25k frequencies Not legal but nobody can tell unless you draw attention. To get a comprehensive answer you will need to check all the airport charts, which could take a long time.

Whoever is selling this aircraft should have dealt with this, instead of landing the new owner with a nightmare getting it done, with avionics shops being so busy putting in 8.33 boxes.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Airborne_Again wrote:

Strictly speaking, since the beginning of this year you are not allowed to fly anywhere where you have to use the radio unless you are 8.33 equipped — VFR or IFR.

Is that quite right? The UK CAA say:

The UK CAA has chosen to implement this as detailed below, providing more flexibility to those that are struggling to equip with 8.33 kHz capable radios.

From 1 January 2018 if you need to communicate on an 8.33 kHz channel you will need to use an 8.33 kHz capable radio.
From 1 January 2019 if your flight mandates carriage of a radio, then it must be 8.33 kHz capable. This rule overrides all others.

Doesn’t that mean that, for the UK part of the trip at least, Callum only needs to check that the actual frequencies he needs to use have not changed yet?

Provided he does it this year, if he goes either to an airfield that has not changed, or one where non-radio is permissible, and doesn’t use any enroute services that have changed, he should be OK.

But he needs to do it sooner rather than later, as the UK is on target to change all frequencies by the end of the year, which means that ⅔ services have already changed, so the curtains are closing fast.

But, if he really needs to do it next year, he still can, provided that he goes somewhere non-radio and doesn’t speak to anyone enroute, both of which are quite achievable.

EGKB Biggin Hill

It does sound like that should be possible but as I said it will need some airport chart investigation. For example Lydd EGMD (I did my IR renewal there at the weekend) has gone to 8.33 channels although the actual frequencies are settable on a 25k radio (not sure about all of them though).

So taking

From 1 January 2018 if you need to communicate on an 8.33 kHz channel you will need to use an 8.33 kHz capable radio.

if a frequency is published as 125.005 it is an 8.33 channel and legally you need a 8.33 radio even though setting 125.000 on a 25k radio will do exactly the same job.

I would expect certain of the countries enroute to still be largely 25k to protect their aeroclub scene, and actually same with Mode S which is the other big issue for international flying. AFAIK Spain and France is not using Mode S for VFR.

Another thing is that, legally, you cannot avoid the radio for crossing borders. How can one cross a border non-radio?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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