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New Zealand Pilots license in Europe / Jodel on a Permit

Indeed.

LeSving wrote:

If you legally can fly a G-reg annex I in the UK, you can fly anywhere in Europe.

ECAC recommendation INT.S/11-1 of 1980 does not cover all [Basic Regulation] Annex I aircraft and some member states (eg Belgium, Hungary, Spain, Iceland, etc) have failed to implement it as noted in the 2012 ECAC survey referred to in your 2015 thread on this topic: https://www.euroga.org/forums/non-certified/4419-ecac-status-for-homebuilt-flight-privileges-within-europe

Last Edited by Qalupalik at 09 Feb 14:38
London

Qalupalik wrote:

Belgium, Hungary, Spain, Iceland,

You can still go there, you only need “permission”, a fomality. Belgium, I think, is free to go from 1-2 years back. How often are you planning to fly to Hungary in any case?

It’s a matter of publishing the info so people can weigh it up.

Most people don’t ever leave their own country. That’s a fact, unfortunately, and one of the reasons behind EuroGA, and before that my website, is to change this.

In Europe this is much more true for certain countries than others, for various reasons, often due to ELP. Of those who do fly abroad, most fly only to the country next door (e.g. Brits flying only to France), or they fly only to countries speaking the same language. But the residue of pilots do need to deal with these things. It is right for EuroGA to make them aware of it. It isn’t something which is well known; because

  • it isn’t advertised; anybody can buy a plane and the salesman will prob100 say absolutely nothing, nowt, zilch about this
  • the owners of these types are understandably enthusiastic about their aircraft
  • a lot of that flying is done without applying for permits (very little enforcement; the only case I have heard of is a large scale check at some UL meet-up in Germany)
  • most airport workers (e.g. ATC) know nothing about it; a plane is a plane
  • ATC is not police (well, not usually; in some places they behave as such and IIRC in some countries there is a formal connection)
  • those who got busted or got some hassle are not going to post it on a forum

I know a number of the owners, including someone who spent ~100k on one, and they mostly don’t know…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Most Jodels are factory-built “Orphans”, so Annex 1. ( Formerly 2). There are many homebuilt, all 100% from plans, not kit. Wood and fabric.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Thanks for the comments .
One understanding I have is that you have three important things to consider – Nationality of the Pilot , Nationality (reg) of the A/C , Nationality of the pilots license . Two of three must be from the UK to be able to fly there . Thsi is where I am not so convinced .
My Jodel is 1962 French built operating under LAA Permit to fly rules so that on its own is ok.
Craig

Scootss90
Mayploe , Kent UK, United Kingdom

Only aircraft reg need to match pilot licence,
- The strict interpretation: is stamp on aircraft registration certificate matches the stamp on your pilot licence, I doubt this is the case
- The normal interpretation: is stamp on aircraft registration certificate matches the stamp on a supplement paper to your pilot licence (email from UK CAA that you can fly UK aircraft with whatever paper you have, this can be a Tesco card, just ask those who fly UK C130s to France )
- The relaxed interpretation: you already have a match between aircraft reg & pilot licence, so you don’t need anything…

Pilot nationality, just take the same stuff as when going with EasyJet

On PtF, Annex 2/1, LAA, Jodel, Microlights…. as long as you are insured to fly in Europe and not planning to go really far away it should be “ok”: as much it is “ok” to drive motorcycles, vintage cars, camping caravans or pulling trailers around Europe (not all of these are legal as per the texts, but you only need to care about having a valid driving licence and EU insurance to get off the hook )

Last Edited by Ibra at 09 Feb 23:52
ESSEX, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I know a number of the owners, including someone who spent ~100k on one, and they mostly don’t know…

Regulations concerning homebuilt aircraft are different from country to country. However, the basic principle is the same all over. The regulations allow amateurs to build their own aircraft first and foremost, then fly them. If someone spends 100k on a pre-build homebuilt only to be surprised that there are a few strings attached, I couldn’t care less. It’s as stupid as buying a biz jet, and only later discover that you need something different than a SEP rating to fly it and it needs a long concrete runway and so on. People buy stupid things all the time, even against better knowledge and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I bet that not a single person who built their own aircraft is surprised about the regulations of operation when finished. But then I also think that most people building their own aircraft have a bit more “self confidence” of right and wrong and what is possible or not than the average private GA pilot, if you know what I mean.

Scootss90 wrote:

One understanding I have is that you have three important things to consider – Nationality of the Pilot , Nationality (reg) of the A/C , Nationality of the pilots license

Are you legally flying it in the UK? and is the aircraft registered in the UK? If yes, there is absolutely nothing preventing you from flying all over Europe (considering a New Zealand pilot license is valid in the rest of Europe). BTW, how do you validate the license in the UK? Actually I’m more surprised that a New Zealand license can be validated by flying a UK aircraft that is Annex I. But what do I know about UK/NZ license policies? (nothing)

The regulations allow amateurs to build their own aircraft first and foremost, then fly them

Yes – within your own country only (assuming you registered it there). It is flying to other countries where the permissions tend to be needed.

One understanding I have is that you have three important things to consider – Nationality of the Pilot , Nationality (reg) of the A/C , Nationality of the pilots license

In most cases the pilot’s citizenship (passport) is not relevant. In some cases it places limitations on allowed ownership. It is the last two being the same which gives you noncommercial worldwide privileges under ICAO i.e. in a certified aircraft.

Are you legally flying it in the UK?

In this case (Annex 1 uncertified aircraft) the UK auto-validates an ICAO license for flying a G-reg. So effectively the last two items above are complied with.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Yes – within your own country only

This isn’t implied anywhere in any regulations about homebuilt aircraft, except the building part and test flying part (first 5-50 h depending, and is a part of the building process).

Maybe the UK is different with all these national licenses only valid within the UK, I don’t know. But this is not how things are elsewhere in Europe

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