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Homebuilt / ultralight / permit (non ICAO CofA) and IFR - how?

That’s a really useful post. LeSving. I cleaned up that long link and put in local copies to the two docs in case they disappear.

There are no references anywhere but hopefully whoever compiled that stuff did some digging…?

However, taking one example data point, I am not sure your description for e.g. France

France (for the most, all other ECAC countries with no restrictions at least)

corresponds with the extract from that PDF

which to me means just about anything. I am also separately informed by more than one person that non-F-reg homebuilts have a 6 month base limit in France.

The UK situation is fairly clear at least – not useful at all for IFR.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

which to me means just about anything. I am also separately informed by more than one person that non-F-reg homebuilts have a 6 month base limit in France.

France has no limits for Belgian, Finland, Netherlands, Germany, Ireland and UK. For all other EU (ECAC?) states including Norway, Switzerland and Iceland there is a 6 month limit for one stay. This is according to the older version. The newer version more relaxed but also more obscure.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Where is the reference for the above?

The older document, posted here some months ago, is here and for France it says

and this is for overflight, not being based there.

Unfortunately that document is cut off at the bottom.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Where is the reference for the above?

In column number 4.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

OK sorry I missed that.

So if the State of Registry CAA has sent the required documentation to the DGAC, the homebuilt can stay without a time limit.

Is the documentation for a particular aircraft or for the type?

I can see a problem here: some national authorities don’t want their homebuilts to be based abroad. The UK LAA has said this openly (much discussion on the LAA’s legally suspect procedures here previously, including a letter they wrote to one owner). And e.g. the Netherlands CAA requires a Netherlands contact address, plus (in a recent move) requires a Netherlands firm to do the 2-yearly altimeter check. Fairly obviously these CAAs are not going to send stuff to the DGAC or other countries helping their registered homebuilts to be based abroad!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Brilliant discussion – thanks to all participants, especially for posting links and documents! Many new informations for me – unbelievable

EDLE

Dear all pilots,
Just registered at EuroGA, few words to introduce myself : PPLA in France, based LFGI, flying on DR400, WT9 and TB20.

Reading many subjects, I’m looking for buying an XPerimental. Of course French market is very narrow and I’ve seen different aircrafts in Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
I found many very good informations reading rules, laws, websites and this forum !
But I didn’t find if I can keep OO register and being based in France ?
If someone as the answer I will be more than happy to know ! (I asked DGTA by email, but no answer since 3 weeks…)

Thanks

LFGI

Ugolin, welcome to this forum, soyez le bienvenu! (si ce n’est “la bienvenue” …)

I seem to remember from a more or less recent discussion here that the French administration do expect you to move to the F-register (F-xxxx), but, to register as an experimental (F-Pxxx) you need to offer proof that you essentially built the plane yourself. That is only my memory, mind you, I hope someone can offer a pointer to support or correct.

That said, I am quite surprised you found an interesting offer on the OO-experimental register. Actually I should have expected the French market to be a lot broader than its Belgian counterpart, France is a much bigger country after all and also has a strong tradition of homebuilding aircraft, especially in wood. There are very few homebuilts down here in BE, only 162 registrations have ever been assigned in this segment of the OO-register. Needless to say only a few of these ever flew, and of those few several crashed.

Looking forward to hearing more from you!

[[edit as an afterthought: is there no support from the RSA for this kind of question? Even if they are mainly focused on construction, I should expect them to offer advice/support on regulatory matters, too? ]]

Last Edited by at 11 Mar 15:29
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Hi Jan,
Thanks for your answer and the welcome ! And it’s bienven*u* in my case !
F-PXXX is noway for OO or PH if you didn’t build it by yourself in France unfortunately. To be more exact I’m in touch for 1 aircraft in OO and 2 in PH.
Thank you for the idea thru RSA. I will try. Last option is to based the aircraft in the original country officially, but not very clean…
French regulation is very annoying…sometimes…

LFGI

The April UK LAA magazine has just arrived in the post, and contains a short summary of the progress on permit IFR in the UK.

From the tone of the article, there is now no question that it will happen. A Technical Leaflet will be published soon with details.

The minimum equipment is truly minimal: attitude + backup, direction and rate of climb, as well as the instruments mandated for VMC. It seems cleared aircraft will be able to fly on airways, if they meet the equipment requirements.

There will be a minimum height limitation on instrument approaches (likely 500 ft on precision approaches, 600ft on non-precision), this is based on the unknown installed accuracy of the altimeter and approach guidance systems. There may (hopefully will) be a procedure to remove these limitations and go down to system minima if it can be shown that the systems perform to the same standard as certified aircraft.

This is great news, and IMO the few limitations don’t detract from the progress that has been made. Thank you to all involved!

EGEO
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