CKN I have one other thought that might be helpful from my aero time.
I am sure you understand the difference between injected and non injected engines when it comes to aeros. There are plenty of aircraft that are certified for aeros with both and even types fitted both with injected or non. Personally I think that as you progress there are many good reasons for having an aircraft with an injected engine when it comes to aeros.
In the same vein their are aircraft with properly inverted oil systems and those without. Without adequate respect for an aircraft without an inverted oil system and at some point you are inviting costly problems with the engine. At the point you are looking for a share or ownership this could be some of the best advice I can give because the history of the aircraft and the way it has been looked after is even more important if it has been used to fly aerobatically, as is also true if you are joining a group, only to find the first thing that happens is you are presented with a big bill for an engine overhaul.
Just a thought for the future perhaps.
@Silvaire I often think how “fun” the Luscombe is, although I have not quite worked out why I enjoy it so 
. Given your name and our other exchanges, you must have some great Luscombe memories.
Maybe one thing that makes it “fun” is that I flew the other day and realised that the ball was in the middle without me looking which was nice given the adverse yaw from those distant ailerons. One of the greater pleasures I have had flying was when I did something right through “feeling” or sense rather than reacting to what an instrument is telling me and the Luscombe has been teaching me some of that. Hoping that it will all contribute to the future.
@Norflyer, @RobertL18C, @Beechbaby – I have been reading Campbell on Basic Aerobatics, Alan Cassidy’s Better Aerobatics, and Neil Williams, but not looked into Michael Goulian which I will check out. I sort of met him in Andover, MA a couple of years ago at the local 1950’s GA airport where he has an office and sparkling, gleaming hangar.
CKN wrote:
Whilst I fly a Luscombe now
Which is not a bad place to be in preparation for aerobatic training. You do learn what the controls are for in a Luscombe, and if after the T67M you were eventually to end up in a Pitts, Luscombe time is the traditional ’Pitts Primer" due to some similarity in runway handling.
Good luck and have fun!
Thank you again each and all your helpful advice and views, much appreciated.
It looks like the T67M will be the way to start, in addition to which there are two at the club which helps on availability. If I had a choice, I would most definitely go for the Chipmunk or Cap10 or… but I have to start somewhere and will hopefully have opportunities down the road. The aeros I enjoyed as passenger (although I was permitted to fly both and a simple aileron roll) this year were in a Nan Chang and a Tiger Moth. Shares in Chipmunk and Nan Chang were about £12,000 give or take which does not work for my budget and no shares in Cap10’s very regrettably.
Whilst I fly a Luscombe now, there was a possibility of a Starduster instead, but the Starduster was sold to Germany. Not great in winter perhaps but open cockpit/biplane would be wonderful.
In the end, the aircraft is important, the instructor more important and then it’s down to me to make the time, get it to work and hope that eventually I can draw some graceful lines in the sky.
Will let you know how I get on and all the best!
Hi CKN. GLad you are considering a training course in aeros. FWIW, all advice above is excellent. I displayed the De Havilland Chipmunk, in fact my first DA was in the Chippy. I have aero’d in my Yak 50, trained with Genady Elfimov in the 52, and done a fair amount of hours in a Stolp Starduster.
My least favourite aeroplane is the Pitts. We had one for about six months, and I never got to like it. That is a very personal opinion. Energy management is what it is all about, and I found learning in the Chipmunk, perhaps the best trainer, ever, really settled me. The Chipmunk is one of these aeroplanes, easy to fly, but difficult to fly well. Aeros are superb, because, energy management in the Chipmunk is key. In fact, my advice would be to start on a lower powered aircraft, with fine handling, and an instructor who knows the game. The Pitts is a bit of a handful, particularly for a beginner.
That said, I flew a Grob 115D last week, and it handled perfectly. Very military, was really impressed.
However, you will know what, and where you wish to take your aeros, and you can never stop learning.
Best of luck, and let us know what you chose.
CKN agree his teaching may be more relevant when you decide to compete.
Have not flown in a Pitts but am told the S2 is reasonably friendly. I will try in due course to get some time with Alan and his book Better Aerobatics is excellent.
I do my tumbles in a CAP10 and I find it a delight to fly. Well suited for beginners and (relatively) easy to handle in the circuit. Treat aerobatics as any other discipline of flying, be well prepared and rehearse procedures for everything, that makes life easier. Entry speeds, g-pulls, counting etc. etc. Always have a distinct plan of your maneuvers.
Unless you have some good tailwheel hours, the Pitts is probably going to scare you take some time mastering in the circuit.
Treat yourself to the books “Basic Aerobatics” and “Advanced Aerobatics” by Mike Goulian and Geza Szurovy for Christmas.
Fly safe!
Thanks all for your feedback so far, it’s really helpful.
I do fly out of White Waltham and there are many aerobatic capable aircraft from Chipmunks to Nan Chiang/Yaks to Tiger Moths as well as a pair of CAP10’s, but all privately owned/syndicates.
I currently fly a Luscombe so the extent of my “aerobatic” flying is trying to gently manoeuvre in slow flight on the edge of stall or lazy eights, chandelles (hint: I need some training as those leave something to be desired). Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy the Luscombe, but it cannot deliver on the aero side.
I have very good feedback on both Alan and his colleagues (Pitts) as well as the club instructor (160 hp T67) so am trying to work out what to start with. I figure if I really get the bug, I will eventually move on to a properly aero capable aircraft, or if I can afford it, have shares in two a/c unless I can find the ideal compromise a/c.
From what you are saying, I gather that starting on a more basic a/c will teach me energy management and necessary inputs for an underpowered a/c which will stand me in good stead going forward.
@robertl18c Alan only teaches in the Pitts or gives radio advice if flying another a/c, so that might be part of the progression?
Any other thoughts or views on aeros, please don’t hesitate. I am early in my flying “career” as a hobby, and am setting some goals to work towards whilst just enjoying flying – but my couple of aeros experience left me smiling enough to cause radio interference.
If you are at White Waltham home of Alan Cassidy (Pitts S2B?), I would suggest the choice not to train with Alan needs to be thought through carefully.
I trained originally in a Decathlon, very good aircraft. I got my instructor ticket for aerobatics in a T67M – very good teaching aircraft.
Silvaire is right in terms of bang for buck. The Pitts for example will spoil you rotten – loads of power, loads of performance.
But .. .. there is something to be gained on Citabrias or their like. Less power, less performance means thinking a lot more about energy management and in some ways the aircraft will be more revealing of good handling and boy will the smile be even bigger when you transition to the Pitts or something similiar.
Also unless you are already accustom to a sporty taildragger, there is a lot more to learn just to fly the aircraft in terms of the ground handling and the “unusual” approach profile.
Just another point of view.
