172driver wrote:
I always thought that this ‘Flugleiter’ or AFIS system was dangerous, as it somehow lulls you into thinking there’s actually ATC in the tower cab
How experienced are you with AFIS? I haven’t met anyone who thought there was actually ATC in the tower.
According to the METARs, the cloud base was 4500 feet or higher. Both aircraft were in the traffic circuit, so they must have been in VMC
The cloud base was indeed at 4500’ but there were still other clouds present below. Maybe they opted to cut through one of them instead of circumnavigating it.
172driver wrote:
I always thought that this ‘Flugleiter’ or AFIS system was dangerous, as it somehow lulls you into thinking there’s actually ATC in the tower cab, while in reality it’s just some guy with a hendheld.
Have you actually flown to an airfield which has AFIS?
I have flown to Speyer several times and the guys up in the AFIS are very well up to speed. They will give as accurate traffic information as they can and are also helpful in other things. Everyone who has learnt to fly around here knows what they are and what their capabilities are and what they may and may not do. I never thought of it as dangerous.
airways wrote:
The cloud base was indeed at 4500’ but there were still other clouds present below. Maybe they opted to cut through one of them instead of circumnavigating it.
Then the METAR was wrong!? The “cloud base” is the base of any cloud layer (not the same thing as a “ceiling”).
If two aircraft receive an alert of another aircraft near and at the same altitude, but heading and azimuth unknown, they may both choose the same altitude change.
Timothy wrote:
As this accident seems to be happening too, too often (we had a very similar accident in the UK very recently, with equally experienced pilots) maybe we, as an industry, need to put our qualms aside and our hands in our pockets and embrace ADS-B out and in wholeheartedly.
Fully agree, but it would be a much easier sell if there were a minor change approval for a very inexpensive fixed ADS-B In installation including data connection to all the displays on the market.
One can put an ADS-B In unit together from parts for less than $300, but it will be portable and require a power source. The only real additional effort to transform that into a fixed installation is 1) external fixed antenna, 2) wired power incl CB, 3) data line to GPS/PFD. That should be doable for < $1-2k incl labour if the paperwork can be signed off by an A&P.
A second-best alternative would be to allow a wired connection via jack from a portable unit to an in-panel display.
Of course, but the “gold plated position” of the “gold plated” avionics shops is that the only equipment which is legally connectable to a certified panel mount display device is what is shown in the device’s installation manual. And of course uncertified equipment will never appear there! Pragmatically this is ignored (it would make even a connector illegal, especially if you plugged something into it 
) but most owners don’t have access to pragmatic solutions…
Also if you developed a box which did ADS-B IN and output RS232 or ARINC429 data which can be fed into a GTN, IFD etc box, you would have to advertise it “for experimental aircraft only” with a big smiley after it, and most owners would be way too scared to touch it even if the installation was trivial.
Then you have the fact (which many loudly dispute but off the forum most seem to agree) that almost nobody in “low level GA, OCAS” is radiating ADS-B OUT, so to get anything useful you would need to develop a Mode C receiver which has azimuth, like the now-defunct ZAON box, and you would merge the output of that with any ADS-B data. Threads here and here. Then you get into a lot more work… and ZAON went bust, so for whatever reason the demand in GA is not that big.
This discussion would change if ADS-B was made mandatory in all airspace, with almost no exceptions, but I don’t believe that will ever happen.
I had an incident with rotary last year. Climbing out of a tower only airport at around 500 feet I had an TAS alert. I should have spotted it, but it was a turbine rotary flying directly across the climb out 200 or 300 feet above. The alert was pretty late, and I did wonder how quickly it would have picked up on the traffic given the short time between departure and the alert and the angle of the aircraft with the rotary above, but it worked and it was close enough for an air prox. I always try and and maintain eyes out as much as possible during the climb out but it can be a busy time and was very grateful for the technology. Without, it reminds you how important it is not to assume the climb out is sterile, especially at tower only and unmanned fields.
Peter wrote:
The problem with FLARM is that there is no way to display the traffic on a panel mounted device, and few pilots want to be looking at an Ipad or whatever for traffic. At the very least you want audio traffic warnings to be routed to the aircraft intercom (can be done with a bluetooth link). If there was a simple FLARM receiver which could be connected (legally, or illegally if it is something the owner can do without having to get an avionics shop involved) then I am sure all the high-end GA would install it.
I don’t know where you get that, the simplest way would be to connect (e.g.) a Flarm Eagle to a FlarmView 2 (from lxnav.com) or Flarm Colour Display (from lxnavigation.com). Those units are extremely compact, have their power feed through from the Flarm Eagle so only one cable goes to it. That piece of kit is based on Power Flarm and an update to ADS-B reception will also be available.
For my part, I have used an MRX for years but have since built my own PAW system and added the Flarm Eagle to it. The PAW outputs audio through my GMA340 into my headphones. The system detects ADS-B, Flarm and PAW with bearings as well as altitude differences, for Mode C and S it shows rings around the symbol of my aircraft in varying colours dependent on proximity, and displays altitude variations. The total cost has been around 1100€.
However it has one main problem: It will not see NORDO aircraft so I am fully in the camp of mandatory ADS-B – if everyone else used it, I’d bin my PAW / Flarm and go to ADS-B but paying 4k for a certified GPS source (including installation) and see less than what I do now – no thanks.
I note the comments on NATS and CAA looking to introduce something along the lines of LPAT but firstly, how many years has this been ‘under development’ and secondly, does anyone really believe that the price per unit will be anywhere near what they claim? I would wager 50€ that the finished product will not be for less than 1500€ and for those people flying gliders on minimum wage, that’s not something they can cough up in a moment; if it’s not mandatory, what benefit does it offer over and above my own setup with PAW and Power Flarm? For that reason I personally believe it will come to nothing. Good intentions yes, but nothing more…..
Now where I see something of interest is if SkyEcho was able to be used in conjunction with a Mode S transponder, then that would be something to consider. Set it up to transmit the ICAO number of your transponder and Robert is your Mother’s Brother……. ADS-B in and out for 600 quid. What’s not to like……
Steve6443 wrote:
Peter wrote:
The problem with FLARM is that there is no way to display the traffic on a panel mounted device,
I would rather say, that the no1 technical problem with flarm is that it’s a low power system. Consequently unless someone is flying in a wood and rug airplane it requires proper antennas placed in proper places. Do not forget that flarm enforces periodic firmware updates. Trough this process, at least in theory, flarm is free to declare any type of device “obsolete” which means that those “obsolete” devices would be effectively bricked.
Powerflarm costs only a couple of kEuros which is almost nothing compared with certified stuff therefore should this unlikely scenario materialise 
flarm shall see a nice revenue stream as it’s customers will rush to purchase new and supported devices.
