Re the OP
The EASA FCL NPA Annex 3 gives figures for the different CPL and ATPL theory courses, mandating
ATPL (ab initio) 750 hours
ATPL (PPL already) 650 hours
ATPL (CPL already) 400 hours
ATPL (IR already) 500 hours
CPL integrated (ab initio) 350 hours
CPL modular 250 hours
None of these times appear to require face to face classroom sessions.
Deduced from above
- CPL from PPL takes 250 hours
- ATPL from PPL takes 650 hours
Therefore ATPL course would be 650/250 = 2.6 times more work than CPL, or CPL is about 40% of the work.
This doesn’t seem to match feedback from other posters on here or elsewhere, although I have heard it said that just because its 13 instead of 14 exams doesn’t mean that there isn’t quite a lot more material for each exam topic in the ATPL.
These figures are already there. However it all depends on the ATO. Do they have books specifically for CPL? Can you easily skip the irrelevant parts? Are the progress tests limited to CPL syllabus? Etc. You could have a CPL course that is pretty close to an ATPL one because they have not put in the work. With CATS the timeframe and price are the same for both ATPL and CPL.
As I understand it EASA counts on classroom work. Distance learning is optional. I don’t know where it is specified or whether it’s formal at all but the limit for homework should be 90 %. Anyway, this depends on the ATO and the NAA which approves the training. It doesn’t matter what is possible but what is available, unless you want to start your own ATO. You could have a modular ATPL course with 400 hours worth of homework and 250 hours of classroom. And those are minimums so they could actually exceed that.
With CATS the timeframe and price are the same for both ATPL and CPL.
According to what they told me on the phone, the CPL is 1 day less on each of the classroom sessions – see the 1st post in this thread.
Not a lot I know… But if you just want the CPL for FI work, there is absolutely zero point in doing 1% more than the minimum. Almost none of the CPL theory is going to be relevant to a light GA FI.
1 day less in some hotel at Gatwick or Luton is worth quite a lot 
I now believe that the difference in TK efforts between CPL and ATPL starting from a PPL/IR is significant.
Three datapoints:
1. Study hours as per law:
Quoted from DavidC’s info in this thread above:
– CPL from PPL takes 250 hours
- ATPL from PPL takes 650 hours
2. Classroom hours
I called a local FTO who is working out a distance learning CPL TK course. They said only 20hrs of classroom training is required (and approved by the Belgian CAA). These hours can be performed in 1-1 sessions, as per my agenda instead of an awkward week (or three) in the middle of my professional activities. Caveat: their course is not yet ready.
3. Number of AviationExam QB questions
The CPL question load is 78% of that of ATPL as per AviationExam’s database.
If you already have an IR, then you can skip Human Performance & Limitations and Meteorology as well as per (EU) No 1178/2011, Appendix 1, A, 2.3:
2.3. An applicant for a CPL having passed the relevant theoretical examinations for an IR in the same category of aircraft
is credited towards the theoretical knowledge requirements in the following subjects:
— Human Performance,
— Meteorology.
_AviationExam_question_load.jpg)
Of this QB, after having studied the ATPL books, which I obtained in 2009 when I planned to do the ATPL, I covered now more than 25% in three weeks during my free time (mainly sitting in airliners as a passenger). I obtained an average score of 83%. Many, many questions are very similar, so the real content load is even lower. Disclaimer: of course I do study the content and use the questionDB to judge my progress.
Considering all above, I believe that the TK load for CPL is significantly below that of ATPL when already having an IR ! On top, I find it feasible to study on my own tempo, and once I feel ready, I can sign up for the official paperwork and sit the exams.
To be continued …
According to what they told me on the phone, the CPL is 1 day less on each of the classroom sessions
By timeframe I meant the total time and that is 3x approximately 3 months. Which doesn’t correspond to the 250 vs. 650 at all. If the timeframe for ATPL theory is 9 months, it should be more like 4 months for CPL theory.
1 day less in some hotel at Gatwick or Luton is worth quite a lot
That might very well be true, but those three days extra give you crack at ATPL theory, which means IR theory. Three days compared to nine months is nothing. It wouldn’t be just those three days of classroom, but their CPL course sure doesn’t look like a proper standalone one, more like lightly stripped down ATPL.
I now believe that the difference in TK efforts between CPL and ATPL starting from a PPL/IR is significant.
If you have PPL/IR, you can get credit for IR (this is up to ATO). So it’s 500 hours, not 650. And yes, CPL should be less work. ATPL is not simply CPL/IR.
ATPL from 0: 750
ATPL from PPL: 650
ATPL from PPL/IR: 500
ATPL from CPL: 400
ATPL from CPL/IR: 250
You can find it in Appendix 3 of 1178/2011 (page 97 of current consolidated version).
I even found the 10 % classroom rule. It’s ORA.ATO.305(b) in the same regulation: The amount of time spent in actual classroom instruction shall not be less than 10 % of the total duration of the course.
Hi, I just got my CBIR added to my easa ppl based on my FAA experience and of cause a skill test.
I have heard that I can have the HPA-limitations on the CBIR removed if I have passed an ICAO ATPL Theory – are there anybody who can confirm that or have experience with it?
As luck has it I did the FAA ATP written last year at Flight Safety so I see an opportunity here to save myself from spending 1000 pounds on a HPA-course.
cheers FD
I have heard that I can have the HPA-limitations on the CBIR removed if I have passed an ICAO ATPL Theory – are there anybody who can confirm that or have experience with it?
From CAP 804 Section 4 Part H, Subpart 1 Page 2:
(b) Single-pilot high performance non-complex aeroplanes. Before starting flight
training, an applicant for a first class or type rating for a single-pilot aeroplane
classified as a high performance aeroplane shall:
(1) have at least 200 hours of total flying experience, of which 70 hours as PIC on
aeroplanes; and(2) (i) hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of a course for additional
theoretical knowledge undertaken at an ATO; or
(ii) have passed the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations in
accordance with Part-FCL; or
(iii) hold, in addition to a licence issued in accordance with Part-FCL, an
ATPL(A) or CPL(A)/IR with theoretical knowledge credit for ATPL(A),
issued in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention
Interesting that you can’t just hold a PPL and sit the ATPL exams.
However under the FAA system that’s impossible anyway; you must have a CPL to sit the ATP exam.
We, surely (ii) above in Tumbleweed’s post says just that?
One has to pass ATPL theory before doing the CPL in EASA land!
One has to pass ATPL theory before doing the CPL in EASA land!
Actually No; you can do the EASA CPL having sat “just” the 13 CPL exams. These are a significantly smaller subset of the 14 ATPL exams (less work than 13/14)
But anyway the Q is whether a Euro ground school FTO would allow you to sit the 14 ATPL exams if you didn’t already hold a CPL?
If the answer is NO, would they let you set the 14 ATPL exams if you held a CPL and not an IR? If YES to that, that’s illogical, surely, because you need the IR for the ATPL every bit as much as you need the CPL for the ATPL.
Like Floatdriver above, I am looking at the easiest possible way to get the HPA.
