CB-IR / CB IR / CBIR (merged)

Its a really vague definition about flying from an origin to a destination (nothing to say they can’t be the same place) using ‘standard navigation techniques’. Most people have interpreted this as anything that leaves sight of the airport qualifying as x/c.

Due to a range of 800 nm I do a lot of flights without landing at a destination different from my home airport (flying through the alps is just wonderful, even though I like to travel for business or fun as well). I just keep records in my logbook what routes I take (mostly mountain names, but an Austrian authority should find those on a map, hehe).

Yes, FAA has a clear definition of XC, in EASA-land I don’t think there is any of local vs XC (e.g “another aerodrome”, “vicinity”, “ATZ”, “contact en-route”, “navigation”, “30km”…), but for sure 6 landings per hour will not do the job (e.g. circuits)

I think AAA will take your words in good faith (except for a logbook with exactly 50h00min XC )

I’m at 42h x/c and 15 hrs IR training so I would say I’ll be presenting the IAA with 51-52h max! I never found the answer to whether the PPL skills test counts (examiner wrote P1 in my logbook) so I’ll do an extra couple of hours just to be sure.

CB-IR with full time job that’s paying for it

I have two steps I plan to do this year. Spoke with Peter and he told me there’s loads of people on here that have done this route, so any feedback or help would be appreciated.

1) Get the CB-IR theory done and out of the way
2) Start the CB-IR flying course and complete by year end. (Originally this was Summer) but I feel setting myself that target with a full time job and the grand ole British weather is about as highly unrealistic as me completing the CB-IR by year end. But in fact I think that’s quite achievable.

I live in London, so anything that’s travel by Coach or train (as I don’t have a car, I only have a license) would be realistic.

The CAA publish a list of ATOs approved to provide CB-IR theory courses.
There are only three and all of them also provide the full IR option.
Prices include the one day mandatory classroom. (3 days for full IR)
CATS (Luton) £899 for either
CAPT (Wycombe and Prestwick) £495 for CBIR or £795 for full IR
Bristol Ground School (Weston Super Mare). No mention of CBIR, IR is £506.

CAPT looks like a good idea. Wycombe Air Park is reachable from Paddington right?

Then once I’ve completed the theory and passed the exams. Where do I undertake my training? I have access to an Airways/Class A airspace approved DA40. The only caveat is it does not have a WASS GPS. So can’t do the LPV or RNAV, only the LNAV. Not sure if this prevents me doing anything, but surely an ILS and a VOR/DME or LNAV is sufficient on the test?

I read that Rate one Aviation let you use your own aircraft for £30 h/r. But an IR instructor sets you back £500 per day. I am Stapleford based, so might speak with them but not sure they’ll do it.

Hello,

I am in the same boat

Yes, CAPT is a good idea for TK but make sure you book next “London refresher class session” with them early April or you will have to go all the way to Prestwick or wait next year (I tried to combine it with a weekend flight, but the logistics never worked), TK material book is good but as always I will have lot of time to read that later in my life, I think QB apps are worth personal effort I am planing to invest 5 days “under the ground” on TK/QB, if I don’t make it I will just let go

I am not thinking on the flying element yet, but some have done it on 2 months weekends while taking some Fridays off, I guess the training has to be fast track to be able to pass the skill-test in less than 20h/25h for a SEIR/MEIR? Flying it in school training/test aircraft would make more sense to me, at 3h per day one should get used to a 747 in one week

A PBN/B2 GPS is fine, it does not need to have EGNOS. The UK still has a fetish for the NDB and most RNAV approaches require an NDB for the missed approach segment. Demonstrating the hold will also require an NDB (there are some waypoint holds but now used for training purposes).

Stapleford used to hire out IR instructors for around £80 an hour for pilots with their own aircraft. I would recommend spending time in the SIM even if it is a DA42 SIM.

pilotrobbie wrote:

Bristol Ground School …. No mention of CBIR

Sure there is. See CAA Standards document 31 (v 130) p 16 or BGS website.

pilotrobbie wrote:

Wycombe Air Park is reachable from Paddington right?

No, the Chiltern main line to Wycombe begins at Marylebone. I believe Phil’s doing consolidations at White Waltham now which you’d reach using the Great Western main line from Paddington or, if it suits you better, Ealing Broadway.

Here was my timeline:

2nd Jan, booked CAPT, started study, mostly weekends and some evenings
24 Jan, 2 flights with Rate 1, TB20 familiarization + instrument flying
7 Feb, 2 flights totalling ~3h
8 Feb, 2 flights totalling ~2:15
14-15 Feb Mandatory classroom session
17 Feb : Air Law (100) / Human Perf (92) / Aircraft Gen Knowlege (83 – got screwed by some 737 EFIS questions, but opviously didn’t bother to appeal) / Radio (100)
6 March : Flight planning (97) / IFR comms (100) / Met (95)
Then away for work / holidays for over a month
16 May, 2 flights (2:20)
17 May 1 flight (2:25)
18 May 1 Flight (2:20)
23 May 2 flights (3:10)
24 May 1 flight (1:50)
25 May Test and Pass
10 Weeks later → Got paper licence, no temp certificates issued at the time.

So, I think full time you can manage in what I did minus a month!

My takes on this:
Theory – I picked CAPT because 1) Class was on a weekend and 2) they were the cheapest. I would likely pick them again under the same conditions (if no one else did weekends). I found the classroom time a total waste of time – but that’s partly by how things are designed – the tutor essentially only has time to read through the headlines of what we need to know.
Unless things have changed a lot (but private feedback I got a couple month ago) – Get your own materials. I found the PadPilot books (only available on apple books) excellent, and it’s where I first undertood things like dominant winds / how fronts form etc. I like understandings things, so I do very well where subject clicks.
The AE QB was vastly superior to the CAPT one too. Worth the investment.

Flying: Training is intensive, and I wouldn’t expect to do much more than 3h / day. I had a bit of a break during my training, and that added some hours. Still, it can probably be done in 3-5 weekends I think.
I had a motorcycle, and would get to Gloucester and would stay there overnight when required. Going back, I would likely just have taken the train on Friday / Sunday, and used my Brompton to cycle from town to the airfield. The drive (usually at night, on poorly lit roads) is a bit of a nightmare.

I initially decided to do the training in the DA40NG I had accessible at North Weald, but ultimately opted not to (using Rate1’s TB20) 1 and didn’t regret it for a second. The big reason was that relocating the plane every weekend to Gloucester involved some operational risks, and would have limited my hours (and increased fatigue). I think the TB20 can also be slightly easier to fly (to set yourself on the glide, just drop the gear and put approach flaps).

FYI, Unlike what sometimes people think, you CAN have an instructor travel to you and fly in your plane. Me and other people have done this out of North Weald, and I am sure the instructor would travel to stapleford too! I used https://kilodelta.aero/ for my MEP and MEIR (which requires ATO hours). A pilot with whom I’ve done lots of trips did his entire CBIR at North Weald.

While reading Part-FCL (p1209, appendix 6) I’ve got a question about the experience and hours, would greatly appreciate if someone (an IRI?) can answer it:

(i) When the applicant has:
[skipped]
(B) prior experience of instrument flight time as PIC on aeroplanes, under a rating providing the
privileges to fly under IFR and in IMC these hours may be credited towards the 40 hours above up to
maximum of 30 hours,

Did I understand correctly that if a pilot has got:
1. UK IR(R) or
2. EASA EIR
and has completed 30hrs of PIC XC then the pilot needs to do only 10 hrs at the ATO, provided ATO IRI was happy with pilot’s performance during the assessment flight?

Thank you!