arj1 wrote:
Did I understand correctly that if a pilot has got:
1. UK IR(R) or 2. EASA EIR
CAA guidance is much more explanatory on the topic than Part-FCL,
https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Pilot-licences/Aeroplanes/Competency-based-instrument-rating/
Ibra wrote:
Yes, CAPT is a good idea for TK but make sure you book next “London refresher class session” with them early April or you will have to go all the way to Prestwick or wait next year (I tried to combine it with a weekend flight, but the logistics never worked), TK material book is good but as always I will have lot of time to read that later in my life, I think QB apps are worth personal effort I am planing to invest 5 days “under the ground” on TK/QB, if I don’t make it I will just let go
Why have they only got one session? Seems absolutely bonkers. I hope to get the theory under my belt within the next few months. As I will have saved the money, having not flown in February.
RobertL18C wrote:
A PBN/B2 GPS is fine, it does not need to have EGNOS. The UK still has a fetish for the NDB and most RNAV approaches require an NDB for the missed approach segment. Demonstrating the hold will also require an NDB (there are some waypoint holds but now used for training purposes).Stapleford used to hire out IR instructors for around £80 an hour for pilots with their own aircraft. I would recommend spending time in the SIM even if it is a DA42 SIM.
I didn’t think NDB was part of the IR syllabus anymore? Understandably most approaches have them but it’s honestly the most pointless bit of kit for the 21st Century IFR platform. I don’t mean that in a rude way either.
Do you think Stapleford still do that? As that would be handy. Qalupalik wrote:
Sure there is. See CAA Standards document 31 (v 130) p 16 or BGS website.pilotrobbie wrote:
Wycombe Air Park is reachable from Paddington right?
No, the Chiltern main line to Wycombe begins at Marylebone. I believe Phil’s doing consolidations at White Waltham now which you’d reach using the Great Western main line from Paddington or, if it suits you better, Ealing Broadway.
That seems like an ideal place to also go. I am so unsure what one to go for. I think CATS is definitely way too expensive for 7 exams. I might as well do the ATPL theory.
Noe wrote:
Theory – I picked CAPTNoe wrote:
Are CAPT good? But you recommend me getting the PadPilot EASA CBIR eBooks? Then test myself using the https://www.aviationexam.com/ QB? That sounds like an idea plan. The only thing that worries me is that they don’t have any more courses this year according to Ibra.
Flying: Training is intensive
You did the CB-IR route to the IR in 20 hours? What license(s) and ratings did you hold and how many hours? That seems a lot more reasonable than 30 hours or more. I am expecting this to be intense. But I am going to utilise the IR(R) as much as I can. Presumably SRG2131 is the form that the examiner will use and such is the syllabus for the practical side of flying? Because I am thinking whilst I am doing the theory I can fly most of the stuff with a safety pilot on-board except stuff such as stalling/unusual attitudes across the SE of England (Whilst saving money) and doing the CB-IR and passing first time.
Because I was thinking of saving a bit of money, and then doing all the training across 2 weeks of annual leave maybe August/September time. I have Biggin Hill, Southend, Lydd, Shoreham, Cambridge & Norwich all within a reasonable flying distance for practising and not spending untold amount of money to get myself up to scratch before I commence the practical side of flying.
Noe wrote:
I initially decided to do the training in the DA40NG I had accessible at North Weald, but ultimately opted not to (using Rate1’s TB20) 1 and didn’t regret it for a second.
Was it not cheaper with your DA40NG? I’ve looked at the cost of my DA40 and it’s about £100 cheaper per hour on the DA40 than Rate1s TB20. Obviously if I blocked two weeks out on the bookings and did 3 hours per day, I could stay down in Gloucester. But I am hoping something nearby would be cheaper.
pilotrobbie wrote:
I didn’t think NDB was part of the IR syllabus anymore? Understandably most approaches have them but it’s honestly the most pointless bit of kit for the 21st Century IFR platform. I don’t mean that in a rude way either.
It is! It is even still part of the PPL syllabus. It’s optional for LAPL (the syllabus states “GNSS or VOR/NDB”).
Airborne_Again wrote:
It is! It is even still part of the PPL syllabus. It’s optional for LAPL (the syllabus states “GNSS or VOR/NDB”).
I remember holds (any type NDB, VOR, GPS) were “only optional” in the IMCr syllabus & exam, tough I take them very lightly I did few on the sim and for real on top of Southend/Rochester NDB
In the exam, while waiting for procedural IFR in what “Lydd ATC felt was busier than usual for them”, I end up holding at a random point 4DME on some 170 radial to an NDB at 4200ft first and then at 3200ft, luckily for me the FE was curious understanding why inbound IFR traffic end-up in such mess and how I coped with RT compliance rather than the shape/orientation of the hold racetrack, but I will not play my luck again on this…
So unless one books all instrument approach slots for the exam in a school-style airport (e.g. Cambridge) or the busy airport ATC manages well their (with radar & CAS), you will be asked to hold before starting procedures or after going missed, this is is highly likely to be in free NDB spot but some weird variants do exist (including being vectored in rectangles all around the place 
)
pilotrobbie wrote:
Noe wrote:
Are CAPT good? But you recommend me getting the PadPilot EASA CBIR eBooks? Then test myself using the https://www.aviationexam.com/ QB? That sounds like an idea plan. The only thing that worries me is that they don’t have any more courses this year according to Ibra.
I found their strength to be in cost and weekend availability. I would probably go back to them but only for that, accepting I essentially need a rubber stamp.
You did the CB-IR route to the IR in 20 hours? What license(s) and ratings did you hold and how many hours?
I had a PPL + IR(R) and about 50 hours IFR logged, but most of it wasn’t flying procedures.
Because I was thinking of saving a bit of money, and then doing all the training across 2 weeks of annual leave maybe August/September time. I have Biggin Hill, Southend, Lydd, Shoreham, Cambridge & Norwich all within a reasonable flying distance for practising and not spending untold amount of money to get myself up to scratch before I commence the practical side of flying.
Being based somewhere with approaches is definitely a plus, as you essentially don’t get blocked by weather. I found people at Rate1 very pragmatic and would have used them again if in the meantime I hadn’t found an ATO that travelled to my base. Gloucester is just too far from me for weekends.
Was it not cheaper with your DA40NG? I’ve looked at the cost of my DA40 and it’s about £100 cheaper per hour on the DA40 than Rate1s TB20. Obviously if I blocked two weeks out on the bookings and did 3 hours per day, I could stay down in Gloucester. But I am hoping something nearby would be cheaper.
the DA40NG is a rental, but the TB20
1) didn’t need to be ferried each weekend – North weald has no night flying / fairly restrictive hours
2) the TB20 included all approaches. At sometimes 4 per flight, it probably amounted for a good amount. I think their pricing structure might have changed in the meantime.
There are advantages of using the plane you fly in, but honestly getting used to the TB20 for me really wasn’t an issue (and it was the 1st TB I ever flew) Personally, for IR, if there’s going to be any NDB work (and it’s likely there’ll be), I’d recommend a plane with some EFIS, as then you just compare the ground track and the NDB needle on the same screen and things become very easy (ground track pushes head of needle away / bring tails in)
Airborne_Again wrote:
It is! It is even still part of the PPL syllabus. It’s optional for LAPL (the syllabus states “GNSS or VOR/NDB”).
Eurghhh! Was never a fan of the NDB during the IMCR initial. Look’s like I’ll have to revisit itIbra wrote:
So unless one books all instrument approach slots for the exam in a school-style airport (e.g. Cambridge) or the busy airport ATC manages well their (with radar & CAS), you will be asked to hold before starting procedures or after going missed, this is is highly likely to be in free NDB spot but some weird variants do exist (including being vectored in rectangles all around the place )
I am Stapleford based. I am debating what to do regarding the flying side of things. But as people say, it might be better with an EFIS aircraft. Funny enough my DA40 owner plans to upgrade some of the cockpit to EFIS. I have a few hours under my belt IMC in this DA40 with plans to improve on those skills before I conduct the flying side of things. What aircraft type did you use?
Noe wrote:
I had a PPL + IR(R) and about 50 hours IFR logged, but most of it wasn’t flying procedures.
According to my eLog I have 41 hours 30 minutes IFR including the 15 hours IMC course, PPL instrument appreciation and solo IFR time. So I am not far off. Presumably this means I’ll only have to do the minimum 15 hours + any time the ATO decide? Rather than the full course?
Noe wrote:
Being based somewhere with approaches is definitely a plus, as you essentially don’t get blocked by weather. I found people at Rate1 very pragmatic and would have used them again if in the meantime I hadn’t found an ATO that travelled to my base. Gloucester is just too far from me for weekends.
Yeah it’s not hard for me to fly down there. Probably wouldn’t be an issue, but I’d rather do it in a week or two on annual leave as In my industry I work most weekends. So doing it on weekends would take longer. Stapleford is planning on the RNAV so that helps with bad weather in the future. Although using rate one’s aircraft will double the flying cost for me it’s still a strong contender as it means less logistics. But first and foremost that theory…
Noe wrote:
There are advantages of using the plane you fly in, but honestly getting used to the TB20 for me really wasn’t an issue (and it was the 1st TB I ever flew) Personally, for IR, if there’s going to be any NDB work (and it’s likely there’ll be), I’d recommend a plane with some EFIS, as then you just compare the ground track and the NDB needle on the same screen and things become very easy (ground track pushes head of needle away / bring tails in)
I guess doing the IR without an EFIS with regards to the NDB is harder work? But not impossible. I know they plan on upgrading to a Aspen PFD, which may help justify using the aircraft I fly in with RateOne. The other option is Stapleford renting out it’s instructors to me.
I have a Plan of Action either way.
1) Fly the next few months regularly with two IAPs (At least per month) hand flown.
2) Download PadPilot for some self studying whilst I find and choose a ground school. CAPT and Bristol.gs seem to be the cheapest/most convenient options?
3) Choose an ATO that will get me the IR.
Does anyone know where I can find the IR/CB-IR training syllabus? What the tolerances are?
What the tolerances are?
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1303
pilotrobbie wrote:
Yeah it’s not hard for me to fly down there. Probably wouldn’t be an issue, but I’d rather do it in a week or two on annual leave as In my industry I work most weekends. So doing it on weekends would take longer.
Ah, I assumed you could do weekends only. If you are willing to do it on holidays, then that’s ideal. You also likely won’t have to worry about taking holidays to do the exams (which I did).
pilotrobbie wrote:
Yeah it’s not hard for me to fly down there. Probably wouldn’t be an issue, but I’d rather do it in a week or two on annual leave as In my industry I work most weekends. So doing it on weekends would take longer. Stapleford is planning on the RNAV so that helps with bad weather in the future.
I wouldn’t bank on Stapleford having the RNAV this year. If you can take a week or two (and have the plane available), then that sounds like a good solution. If you have a tech issue, then you have their plane as a backup.
I didn’t see in your plan do to question bank questions. I lread the padpilot books (it’s not very long reads), but then would spend a decent amount doing questions on aviation exam (AE). they have a nice iOS (and I imagine Andoid too) app, so you can even do a couple questions when you are seated on the porcelain throne / on your commute, etc. Things will get in fast that way too. I found AE very representative of what the tests are, while the tests of my TK ATO weren’t. AE caters for the entire european market, and the only service they are providing is having a good question bank. The TK ATOs don’t have the same incentive: You HAVE to pick one, and often selection is going to be done mostly convenience / cost. Their incentive to have a stronger QB is less (and in fact, ~all the students I talked to in between tests came from ATPL TK ATOs and used AE QB)
pilotrobbie wrote:
I guess doing the IR without an EFIS with regards to the NDB is harder work? But not impossible. I know they plan on upgrading to a Aspen PFD, which may help justify using the aircraft I fly in with RateOne
The EFIS helps a lot with NDB, was you just have the ground track “push the head / pull the tail of the ADF needle”, making it very easy to put the needle where you want. At least that’s how I visualise it, and it works well for me. You’ll most likely have to do some NDB, tracking outbound, for a procedure (but these days the procedural approach might (and probably should) be an RNAV).
The people at rate1 are very pragmatic, and they want to make things simple. Discuss things with them and they’ll give far better advice than me I’m sure!
RobertL18C wrote:
What the tolerances are?https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?catid=1&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1303
Google just wasn’t bring them up for me ;) Thanks! So pretty much one could prepare my flights with the following document, and where possible utilise a competent safety pilot using the IR(R). The exception being that Section 3 will be OCAS. Section 2 would only be with a qualified instructor/examiner. But most if not all of it can be done whilst I study for the theory and get those all important hand flying skills up to scratch.
Noe wrote:
Ah, I assumed you could do weekends only. If you are willing to do it on holidays, then that’s ideal. You also likely won’t have to worry about taking holidays to do the exams (which I did).
I can also do weekends, but not sure what’s easier. I think my first port of call is to contact CAPT and ask what there availability is like. Failing that, it might mean Bristol GS.
Noe wrote:
I wouldn’t bank on Stapleford having the RNAV this year. If you can take a week or two (and have the plane available), then that sounds like a good solution. If you have a tech issue, then you have their plane as a backup.I didn’t see in your plan do to question bank questions. I lread the padpilot books (it’s not very long reads), but then would spend a decent amount doing questions on aviation exam (AE). they have a nice iOS (and I imagine Andoid too) app, so you can even do a couple questions when you are seated on the porcelain throne / on your commute, etc. Things will get in fast that way too. I found AE very representative of what the tests are, while the tests of my TK ATO weren’t. AE caters for the entire european market, and the only service they are providing is having a good question bank. The TK ATOs don’t have the same incentive: You HAVE to pick one, and often selection is going to be done mostly convenience / cost. Their incentive to have a stronger QB is less (and in fact, ~all the students I talked to in between tests came from ATPL TK ATOs and used AE QB)
pilotrobbie wrote:
Of course not, but Stapleford do have the VOR/DME cloud-break to get to/from the airfield. All there IR/CPL stuff is done from there anyway. Just need an 800ft cloud-base and sufficient visibility. I’d ideally like to get it done in a decent timescale this year. I think the theory will be a pain in the iota. But assuming I do the PadPilot stuff and utilise the AE question bank as you suggest I’ll have no issues.
I wish it was like the PPL I did. All self study.
Noe wrote:
The EFIS helps a lot with NDB, was you just have the ground track “push the head / pull the tail of the ADF needle”, making it very easy to put the needle where you want. At least that’s how I visualise it, and it works well for me. You’ll most likely have to do some NDB, tracking outbound, for a procedure (but these days the procedural approach might (and probably should) be an RNAV).
The people at rate1 are very pragmatic, and they want to make things simple. Discuss things with them and they’ll give far better advice than me I’m sure!
Hmmmm! Hopefully the upgrade is done soon, I’ve also mentioned getting a 430W. But that means we would loose the ability for the twin GPS to communicate. Getting two 430W’s are expensive. My argument is that there’s more of us wanting to utilise this aircraft IFR. Having a WAAS enabled aircraft is future proofing the aircraft. It’ll fly the LNAV perfectly. Just no vertical guidance so it’s all NPA except ILS.
I know of nobody else that seems so open about doing the CB-IR in your own airplane other than RateOne.
pilotrobbie wrote:
I know of nobody else that seems so open about doing the CB-IR in your own airplane other than RateOne.
Reach out to kilodelta.aero. He will come to the airfield of your choice and do it in your aircraft. If he’s not available, he might recommend someone else that might do it too.
I did my MEP / upgrade SEIR → MEIR with him and he was always very open and pragmatic.
