CB-IR / CB IR / CBIR (merged)

So what is it?

What is one being taught and tested on that one wasn’t capable of previously?

The ability to set up and fly an rnav or lpv approach, whereas one was only competent to set up and fly an NDB overlay prior to PBN training/testing apparently

Graham wrote:

What is one being taught and tested on that one wasn’t capable of previously?

If by “wasn’t capable previously” you mean a pilot who has only used conventional navigation, the answer is a whole lot!

If you mean someone who has used PBN equipment before with no formal training, of course it depends on the individual pilot! Judging from discussions here on EuroGA over the years my impression is that a lot of people who are using GPS boxes are lacking in understanding of e.g. failure modes and what checks you should do on a RNP approach.

pilotrobbie wrote:

I guess my route is as follows

CB-IR theory
CB-IR theory tests
PBN theory
PBN test
Pre-ATO training
ATO 10 hours
IRT

This is not right – if you sit the 7 exams today (or anytime in the future) the question bank will have incorporated relevant PBN questions. It is up to you to find a “compliant” ATO who have incorporated the PBN syllabus into their teaching, and more importantly have gotten it signed off by the relevant CAA. You can then fill out some form – saying the ATO has done some PBN training – the IR examiner will then check that by asking you a couple trick questions & make you fly one PBN approach and its done.

In short, if you find the right school it will all be folded into the course as it should be (and is mandatory from 2020?). There should be no additional expense to you at any point. No additional course. The additional course you mention is for people with an IR who need to add the PBN element onto it.

The PBN items may or may not be useless (not getting into the discussion above) but the items tested are definitely new and useful. For the “amateur pilots” like me there are useful new elements like:

• Verifying the GPS is functioning correctly
• Correctly verifying that the GPS database on your navigator matches the plate
• Ensuring that the GPS is flying the approach to the correct level of accuracy / is in the correct approach mode
• Dealing with loss of integrity on approach (pre/post final fix)
• Flying an RNAV missed

My examiner was a 40 year BA veteran and training captain and he certainly honed in on the PBN/GPS aspect.

Thanks TimR for the clarifications

In this video I fly an ILS into London Southend, landing on Runway 05. The IR(R) requires accuracy down to the recommended 500ft, watch as I attempt the IR height and then debrief at home after the flight.

In order to pass the IR test at the end of the CB-IR route, I need to demonstrate that I can perform the relevant procedures and manoeuvres to an appropriate standard. Read more on my website: https://www.theflyingvlog.uk/?p=5924

@pilotrobbie was it this morning out of Stapleford?

@ibra A month or two back.

Got in front of the wrong guy then, keep posting progress on CBIR ;)

TimR wrote:

This is not right – if you sit the 7 exams today (or anytime in the future) the question bank will have incorporated relevant PBN questions. It is up to you to find a “compliant” ATO who have incorporated the PBN syllabus into their teaching, and more importantly have gotten it signed off by the relevant CAA. You can then fill out some form – saying the ATO has done some PBN training – the IR examiner will then check that by asking you a couple trick questions & make you fly one PBN approach and its done.

Good points noted. Presumably an RNAV approach rather than an NDB? or would that be 3 approaches? ILS, NDB and RNAV?

Ibra wrote:

Got in front of the wrong guy then, keep posting progress on CBIR ;)

Haha! Was this yesterday? I see the aircraft was flying, but I was firmly eating a Sunday roast on terra-firma.