Noe wrote:
Do you never land at somewhere like Lyon Bron out of hours?
To this day not. Privately I do not fly much (to say the least), with students we are not supposed to fly abroad (for a varitey of reasons) and when flying at work (i.e. commercially) we need fire fighting capability level 3 or better which out of hours is usually not available.
what_next wrote:
Only this week I have learnt from this very forum that under SERA a flight plan is required for every flight in controlled airspace…
But you don’t have to actively file it before flight. I fly into CAS on a regular basis, but it’s rare I file a flight plan myself. What happens is on first contact with ATC, the act of ATC entering your details causes the flight plan to come into existence.
@alioth, my flight training circa 2003 was very much like the guy you mention who learned in a C140… towards the end, and after doing a lot of solo tailwheel flying on my student certificate, I went to a sausage factory to get me through the Private check ride. This was an amusing (and not unpleasant) culture clash. My new instructor had a couple of hundred hours in Cessnas, unlike the first guy who had taken me as a student to exercise his rarely used CFI, after literally thousands of hours commercial flying in stuff like Travel Air 4000s. I explained to the new guy that my first lesson had been starting the plane, and he didn’t understand I meant hand propping, and so on… But all’s well that ends well because the new guy was a former Olympic athlete, about 30 years old, and he really knew how to train somebody to perfect a skill, how hard to push the student and that sort of thing. I imagine the school management hooked me up with him because they were themselves ‘old school’ people and knew I’d expect somebody competent. I have a lot of respect for how they figured out what I needed and provided it, regardless of being a sausage factory working foreign contracts as their primary business. After a few hours and taking the written and practical tests, I was on my way again.
I have no words for the level of pilot described in the OP. If I knew of people like that I’d just stay away from them due to lack of interest – I find exposure to people like that soul draining. As it is, the commercial pilots I do know have thousands of hours in all kinds of planes and operations and can generally teach me something useful on any given day.
In my own business over the last 10 years I’ve come increasingly into contact with people have the same lack of depth, insight and skill and it’s been depressing. It’s not just pilots. Unfortunately I haven’t yet figured out how to avoid them!
Silvaire wrote:
If I knew of people like that I’d just stay away from them due to lack of interest – I find exposure to people like that soul draining.
Why? Of all commercial pilots trained maybe 95 percent will either fly airliners or business jets (or maybe some other sort of business plane, twin or single turboprop). Some will be instructors and train new commercial pilots. I have been a commercial pilot myself for almost 30 years – mostly at the bottom end of the coolness ladder: Twin piston air taxi stuff, night freight in shaken down unpressurised piston twins, and smallish bizjets in the last decade. With some instructing besides.
Yet I have never had to refuel an aircraft myself, I have never flown from or to an unattended airfield, I have never flown IFR outside controlled airspace (at least not officially) and a few more points on that list. And I can take off and land with a tailwind without crashing. I often do that with “my” little jet to save my company expensive flying time.
Where those other skills are required, e.g. for the photo flights of the original poster, for agricultural flying (which is nonexistant in my part of the world) or similar one can learn them on the job within a few missions. Why waste time and teach students stuff they will – in all probabiliy – never need? We don’t get taught rallye racing either when doing our driving lessons.
@What_next, I simply find people without wide ranging curiousity boring, and time spent with them less useful to me. Learning is good for its own sake and for future use. You never know where life will take you, and the more you know the better you will do. I think better pilots result from wider ranging experience.
In reference to your “rallye racing” comment, I learned to drive starting at age 9 on a minibike on which I spent hours and hours practicing. You have a lot of time when you’re 9 
At age 14 I was driving cars off road, and at age 15 I was riding a motorcycle on the street to take flying lessons (I soloed and then quit until much later). There was no fixed lesson plan for any of the above, and it cost very little. I don’t remember learning to drive a car on the street at age 16, it was a non-event. Doing all that for fun wasn’t a waste of time because in the subsequent decades, nothing I have ever done with a vehicle has resulted in an insurance claim. The only problem with that is that every penny I’ve spent on insurance was wasted!
I think Silvaire makes a good point, I find it immensely dull being around the sort of people he describes.
I’ve met a few people similar to the OP’s description and I really do find it a bit depressing. I know they’re effectively bus / lorry drivers so maybe don’t have much interest in actually driving/ flying outside of work for pleasure. However, I do feel as if they’re missing out on some of the great pleasures of flying.
There’s something very enjoyable about dropping into a little grass strip or field on a summer evening with no one else about.
I know they’re effectively bus / lorry drivers so maybe don’t have much interest in actually driving/ flying outside of work for pleasure.
Isn’t the other big issue that accidents in their name – even minor ones – are a very big black mark that could be career threatening. I’ve heard a few people say they’d avoid GA for that reason – the risks of mishaps being so many times higher for small aircraft.
I have posted something similar on another forum. However it was pulled. I very much suspect the reason for this is that the majority of their advertising income comes the type of school that I am referring to.
Whats next I’m sure your right that its not all EASA’s fault but i do believe sone of it is. All these guys have passed their CPL skills test in MEP aircraft. Hence there lack of rudder during the take off role.
And not having a clue about VFR minima is again due to the TK and the fact that everyone just learns the question bank as the actual question content is so obscure.
I also struggle to entertain the argument that because they only a small proportion of CPL holders move into this line of work it should not be taught.
A significant number do move into GA. Many via the FI courses but I still think a CPL holder with an SEP rating should be able to fly a SEP a 150 miles away and then back. And do it safely and in a commercially expeditious manor.
I suppose the other question is what can I do about it. At present I spend about 10 hours riding shot gun with them but some are so far off the required standard its getting me down.
On the grounds that these guy are paying 350 quid for some airline to look at their CV and then 24.5K for a type rating I’m actually thinking about charging them.
I’m not the one that’s charged them 100 grand for a CPL/IR course. Neither am I the one that’s promised them the world. However I am the one that’s plucked bankrupt kids who are unemployable renewed their ratings for nothing and kick started their career.
Bathman wrote:
A significant number do move into GA.
Again, of our students less than 5 percent. In my part of GA I really miss the ability of the new pilots to organise catering at reasonable prices, clean the cabin using a tiny vacuum cleaner and wet towels, wash the dishes under the wing using the remaining coffee, clean out and refill a chemical toilet, and all the other stuff a bizjet-copilot is supposed to do. But should we really teach them all that during their course?
Cleaning up isn’t really related to flying though, all of the original points were.
