MedFlyer wrote:
to put an end for this endless series of discusions ,just consider that this company (allready manipulating some carriers,some travel organizations and many 5* hotels)
ACTUALY wants you out.There is no other legal way to say that but to increase your expenses,time waisting,agony,lack of honest communication and billings.
Well, Greece is just actively doing what almost all airport managers have wet dreams about in most of Europe. The difference is, that they can get away with it, even though what I see is that Fraport does the same stuff elsewhere too. What will kill GA off in Europe, at least those who wish to travel seriously, is not EASA, it is not new regulation, it will be PPR, overpricing and the same kind of tactics we now see in Greece. In the book of the managers of most airports, small GA is just a collection of insects making their lives difficult and paying (in their view) next to nothing for the privilege. So take a good portion of DDT and kill them off.
It has worked in Munich, Berlin, and it starts to work elsewhere. Many previously GA friendly airports become less and less so and quite a few are Fraport run.
Unless we get a European regulation which declare these airports clearly as public infrastructure and outlaw this kind of behaviour, we will see that within a few years all the airports will go the same way.
MedFlyer wrote:
Adding some hints to @Peter previous analysis,you must understand that the Big boss is in DE ,likewise his staff chief in GR.
The thing is, this is not only the way in Greece. With the UK out of the game, Germany de facto is as close to being the hegemonial power in Europe as it’s ever been. France basically does what they want and are left alone by Germany mostly, the rest mostly dances to Germany’s whistle, some realize it others don’t. The only reason that this has not gone much further by now is the fact that Germany is torn into tiny bits politically, with nobody wishing to talk to anyone else. AFD, the Left, the Greens are all fringe extremist parties which keep stopping the huge establishment parties from establishing a power base from where they could exercise real power in Europe. It is bad enough as it is, but it could be much worse, e.g. if they had the equivalent of a Putin or Orban or similar political power players who can project real power. Maybe that is the advantage of the current political impasse almost everywhere, that no such people can grab sufficient power for themselfs.
MedFlyer wrote:
Just imagine that almost all Greek GA,planes,licenses,airworthinesses zeroed
after their takeover.I was lucky enough to sell just before that.
Basically that is what will happen elsewhere too, where there is no 2ndary airport infrastructure available to cushion the loss of the international airports for GA. Spain is already close to the same with AENA’s regime. Others will follow.
Yea, you did well to sell off right before that. And maybe it is time for many of us to get the hell out now as well, seeing that the prices of used airplanes are as good as they have not been for a long time.
Dear all,
to put an end for this endless series of discusions ,just consider that this company (allready manipulating some carriers,some travel organizations and many 5* hotels)
ACTUALY wants you out.There is no other legal way to say that but to increase your expenses,time waisting,agony,lack of honest communication and billings.
Nevertheless,our previous incompetent masters managed to sell off the country’s infrastructure for nothing.The Greek banks obliged by lending 50% of the price,cause they didnt have the whole money.Next year they started “forgeting” the yearly reimbursement to the State after the logistics clearance.For further reading:
https://www.avgi.gr/oikonomia/367479_anastoli-gia-ta-lixiprothesma-meso-maximoy
Then as a concequence of the bitter covid year ,they asked the State again a contribution to their loses:
Adding some hints to @Peter previous analysis,you must understand that the Big boss is in DE ,likewise his staff chief in GR.The little GR local bosses that give you a bitter time have orders from above to do so.Now the poor illiterate yellow jacket people are (as globaly) selected for their compliance,low profile,low payments (circa 800E) including rolling shifts and no complaints.
Why the Masters succumbed to this quasi Leopold B’ manipulation is a BIG story,not to be analysed here.Just imagine that almost all Greek GA,planes,licenses,airworthinesses zeroed
after their takeover.I was lucky enough to sell just before that.BTW, @Petakas is maybe the only survivor and some bored ULs
I think you may be confusing Greece with another country, hugely popular with retired Brits eating fish and chips 
Peter wrote:
I am sure most of us prefer the lovely friendly people who actually like us to go there, instead of saying (without actually saying it) “you won’t learn our language, so f-k off”
They like us? Happy dillusion. They like us because we pay their income via tourism. That is it. Take that away and the “liking” would go away too.
One has to “understand Greece” 
Here is a bit of a caricature but you’ll get the idea:
In the West, if you are not needed, the company kicks you out, and if you are “useless” (like many are) you end up living off social security.
In Greece, every working person is likely to be supporting his extended family (mostly sitting at home and “baking cakes”) and supporting another 20 of their relatives. Every working person is propping up a whole load of non-earning or low-paid people, and this prevents these people from drawing social security. So a potential husband who earns a lot, say 50-100k, and can support you, your mum, her family, your grandma, her family, etc, is even more priceless than he would be here in the West (where he needs to do all that plus be a perfect father, like the one on the cover of your woman’s magazine, who spends “quality time” with the kids despite coming home half dead from a stressful corporate ladder climbing and ar*se licking job)
In terms of overall social costs/outcomes, one cannot really argue one system is worse or better than the other. The Greek way has a much greater family cohesion, and among much else results in far fewer old (and gaga) people dumped into care homes where they rot for their final 2.5 years. But the “Greek way” makes damn sure the system will never change, the govt knows any reform will explode their social security bill (which is a problem since everybody in Greece who can evade tax is doing that) and every working Greek makes sure he is busy doing “something” billable no matter how pointless.
So Brussels will for ever struggle to convert Greece into a N European country OTOH who would travel to Greece if it was like N Europe? I am sure most of us prefer the lovely friendly people who actually like us to go there, instead of saying (without actually saying it) “you won’t learn our language, so f-k off”
In the West, if a job involved passing 20 bits of paper and rubber stamping and filing them, sooner or later the employee will go looking for a more interesting job (watching the security cameras in the House of Commons, perhaps?). In Greece, people do that job for 40 years…
Any AOPA works, though. But from what I heard, I understand why you don’t want to join AOPA UK…
Agree on the amount of time any handling agent in Greece “spends” with a single operation. It’s nuts. And it shows that it is all wrong. All this PPR, slot coordination, emailing, waiting on the apron, etc. is totally unnecessary and could simply be abolished, which would make the 40€ a reasonable sum for the handling agent. But as it is, it is actually remarkable that these people are (usually) so patient and friendly with these pesky AOPA pilots.
I was the one who flew there in April, and then again in late May. And yes, the extra charge at Mali Losinj was for keeping the airport open an extra 30 mins – fine.
Knowing that I would be going to Greece a few times I joined AOPA Hellas and got the membership card. With this my handling in Corfu with Skyserv was only E40 as I noted. Given the amount of time it takes for Skysev to help me – multiple emails about PPR and slots, interaction with Fraport, escort to and from plane, waiting for me to start up and taxi before they can leave the parking area etc, literally several hours – I felt guilty about how puny my payment to them was.
It is quite easy to join AOPA Hellas, so dont hesitate.
Sadly a different experience for me. Despite lots trying I could only get two days parking, with the intention that if no one else booked I could extend. What they didn’t say was that they were going to close half of the parking for maintenance so they threw me out after four days. I used Swissport. Clearly a mistake. My final bill came in at 680 euros even though I had written before to ask for an estimate and they said 200 euros. On the ground they could not change anything. Computer says nah. So I’ll be writing to them when I can. A real shame as tainted the experience, but of course sheet happens. Next time it’ll be straight to LGIO Easy peacy but odd opening hours. Hour taxi to the port and an hour and bit ferry. Nice people.
May have been a closing time extension.
€80 at LDLO is definitely mistake – technical stop should be around €30. The fees on Corfu don’t sound bad at all and even parking isn’t too much for two weeks – €20/per day is cheaper than Split LDSP in high season (€24/day for 2-ton aircraft).
