Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Meet-up in Sweden, Malmo ESMS

I live in Malmö and intend to join in on some of the activities.

ESTL

@Anders, @martin-esmi; Tack så mycket! Hei så länge

Last Edited by Aviathor at 18 Aug 20:50
LFPT, LFPN

:-)

FP filed for 0800Z 22/8/2015

Alternates ESTL ESMK. Neither is near but as they say, beggars can’t be choosers

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

You know that ESTL is PPR “for all flights” and that ESMK TWR is closed this Saturday which also means PPR and in any case no IFR approaches?

I would file EKRK as alternate. (I haven’t checked the hours, but I’d be surprised if they’re not open when you arrive.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Well. The aero club Ljungbyheds Flygklubb at ESTL has an agreement with the airport that we may issue PPR to aircraft visiting the club. I am a member there so the PPR thing can be sorted out easily. The tower will be closed over the week-end so someone from the aero club will have to meet you and let you out. But there is no immigration at ESTL. Not even when the tower is open.

EKRK has immigration with 1h PN. From the Danish AIP.

The airport is open for traffic to/from all States. HR
immigration: for customs clearance and immigration as for AD.
PN 1 HR

ESTA could also be an alternate. Better opening hours and at least immigration OR.
Active NOTAM on opening hours below.

+ AERODROME CONTROL TOWER (TWR) HOURS OF OPS/SERVICE
MON-WED 0415-2040 THU 0415-2055 FRI 0505-2055 SAT 0550-1320 SUN
0900-2055.
FROM: 17 AUG 2015 00:00 TO: 23 AUG 2015 23:59 ES/B1794/15

AIP for ESTA:

Customs and immigration O/R TEL +46 (0)40 661 32 20

Last Edited by Anders at 19 Aug 08:06
ESTL

Do you need PPR to file as alternate? Nobody does that in reality. The arrival at an alternate is an emergency. To argue otherwise is to argue that you have infinite fuel, logically.

I could file EDAH and spend the weekend sitting in one of these

But really an alternate must be IFR and preferably with an ILS.

I saw EKRK but transport to/near ESMS from there seems hard.

Anyway, one can divert anywhere, so unless some of the airports filed issue an AFTN Cancel message and then I get a slot (and have to abandon the whole trip), it doesn’t matter….

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I’ve re-filed with EKRK & ESTA… just in case somebody at one of the other alternates cancels the FP. It’s rare but it has happened.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Do you need PPR to file as alternate? Nobody does that in reality. The arrival at an alternate is an emergency. To argue otherwise is to argue that you have infinite fuel, logically.

I disagree. A diversion is not an emergency unless you have to eat into the final reserve fuel to get safely on the ground. If you do, then you have either managed the flight and/or homework poorly, or something seriously unexpected has happened.

But really an alternate must be IFR and preferably with an ILS.

Unfortunately, in Sweden, you are not allowed to do IFR approaches unless the airport has TWR or AFIS in operation.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

A diversion is not an emergency

I don’t know the current EASA regs (not proposals) on reserves. Does anyone know? Under FAA you are required to be able to fly to the alternate and then another 45 mins. Some good reading here.

So, the destination cannot be landed for whatever reason, so you arrive at the alternate. But you are not required to be able to reach another airport from there. So, the arrival at the alternate is an emergency. You must land there, in the sense that you are not legally required to carry fuel to reach a second alternate.

The question of what reserves are actually sensible, etc, etc, is an entirely different discussion (45 mins is way too little fuel of course). I am just making the point that you are not required to be capable of reaching an infinite series of alternate airports, one after the other.

So at the alternate I would declare a mayday if there is any issue. That is, in essence, what AOC operators are required to do (in fact they are required to do it at the destination if the fuel falls below a specific value).

To argue otherwise is logically impossible.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top