gallois wrote:
Our way of solving the problem at LFFK is to be open from SR -SS with no staff and no landing or parking fees:)
Likewise at LFDU.
Malibuflyer wrote:
2.) Also pretty common and quite fair in my view: If an airfield opens esp. for you and the staff has to get there only for you it’s not unfair if you have to bear the extra cost.
I agree if I was told about it beforehand. Not OK if you aren’t because you asked “are you open” and the reply was “yes, I just need to know when you are coming”… I figured it out afterwards having spoken to German pilots later. I was being met by somebody and didnt need the guy to be there to say “Roger” 3 times…
Regards, SD..
Our way of solving the problem at LFFK is to be open from SR -SS with no staff and no landing or parking fees:)
Peter wrote:
Collecting money has often been cited as the reason why nearly everything in the UK shuts when the staff goes home.
There’s a dead-simple way around that – an automated system. There is one at my home base KSMO the records the tail numbers and automatically sends out the invoice and/or collects it from a credit card on file. We as a club are on monthly invoicing and there’s the occasional glitch, but it works about 99% of the time.
“What is the difference and specifically, what revenue/money is lost?”
Whe you see how some people try to save a minute here or there, cutting corners, etc., it is not too far fetched to assume that some people would come late and depart early to avoid a charge.
Happens a lot in yacht harbours ;-)
Peter wrote:
Collecting money has often been cited as the reason why nearly everything in the UK shuts when the staff goes home.
This is really funny. Since it is not possible to collect money when everyone has gone home, one closes the airport so that no one can land resulting in no money being collected. So there is no money collected at night whether the airport is open or closed! What is the difference and specifically, what revenue/money is lost? 
Malibuflyer wrote:
We also see that in “the land of the free” pilots where more and more field have mandatory FBOs and some of these have very significant off hour fees
But mostly there are airports where no staff pays any attention to arriving or departing traffic. Very often no staff at all, the downside of which used to be in the event of an unplanned landing you’d be walking around hangars looking for a human to give you a ride. Smart phones make that situation a lot easier.
I’m reminded of a ride with a young ‘hangar rat’ in Buckeye Arizona, in a 30 year old Cadillac, trying to see where we were going with falling headliner blocking my view from the back seat 
We did make it to a nearby hotel, and he got a few bucks for his trouble. I’ve only ever paid airport staff once in relation to landing or short term parking at an airport. This was at a privately owned airport in the US, Catalina, where given the location on an island the alternates are limited! I don’t remember paying anybody in my limited experience flying in Italy and Germany, but maybe it was rolled into other costs.
The main point remains that there is no safety case for airport staff, given huge amounts of experience with none, and there is huge indefensible price to pay in terms of utility. Or fear of punishment in the event of doing the otherwise logical thing, and landing anyway.
1.) Is totally possible at an airstrip that is not open to the public but only for select individuals, members of a club, etc. Not very common for airstrips in Germany, but quite so for helipads. Not clear if they bent the rules for an outsider landing there or if they really have the right for this.
2.) Also pretty common and quite fair in my view: If an airfield opens esp. for you and the staff has to get there only for you it’s not unfair if you have to bear the extra cost. We also see that in “the land of the free” pilots where more and more field have mandatory FBOs and some of these have very significant off hour fees
3.) Almost certainly “bending the rules”. There is a German proverb saying “If there is no plaintiff, there is no judge” – which holds true as long as something bad happens in such cases…
Im interested in this whole “Flugleiter” thing in Germany…
1.I have definitely landed at an airstrip in Germany without anyone other that the friend meeting me being there. ISTR they were usually only open on weekends and I remember calling up the aeroclub and being asked why I wanted to fly in during the week, and I was asked if I would be met on arrival. When I said yes, I was told OK, your welcome then.
2.I have also flown into an aerodrome and been asked when I will arrive so the Flugleiter could be there. I was charged around 3 times the generally reported landing fee others noted on a well known Nav-app for a similar aeroplane.It wast made clear to me why at the time, though I questioned the amount directly.
3.I flew into a well known aerodrome with onsite hotel/restaurant one evening and wasnt sure if I would make it before the noted “closing time”, On arrival about 15 mins after I had hoped, there was no response on the radio so I made blind calls and landed, but wondered if I would be “interrogated” the next morning. While eating a delightful meal at the onsite restaurant 3 further aeroplanes arrived, 2 of them German, one just after the sun had set. No comment made while paying the expected landing/parking fee next morning.
So there you have it, 3 experiences from the last 2 years, with in my view differing ideas on the “Flugleiter” requirement.
One can argue that this introduces a lot of legal and court costs, but regardless the opportunity to fight does not mean
If it settles a small municipality with the risk of losing court case about watching of a pond…
“If a Flugleiter is legally required and is thus present, the liability for not having one is theoretical.”
Not quite. There are exemptions possible, but they are neither pursued by clubs and municipalities, nor supported by the provincial authorities.
And one driver might well be the liability question (the other fees and control as mentioned before)
Municipalities have been held liable for all kind of funny stuff in the recent years…
