The Cirrus is NOT a formidable aircraft infact quite the opposite, it has very predicatble and plesant flying qualitys and should be within the skill range of any compitent PPL holder to fly.
The problem with all the aircraft that you are considering is being proficent with the avionic & autopilot systems, this will require you to get your head in the books and if you can find it a computor simulator for the avionics.
In short the only people who think the Cirrus is a rocket ship are those who have never flown anything faster, the bottom line is it is just a quick fixed gear SEP…….. if you think it is going to fast for you it will fly perfectly happily at PA28 speeds if the brain needs to catch up !
Flyer 59*
I did not say the Cirrus was “not plesant to hand fly” I said “it did not lend its self to hand flying” because of the automation avalable, a fact that you went on to agree with a paragraph or so later !
A and C,
sorry, i misinterpreted what you wrote.
Yes, just a fast FG SEP … but faster than most RGs aswell!
I don’t know a great deal about Beach or Mooney, though reading recently the Mooney thread, not particularly forgiving with ice on.
Not many small planes are “forgiving” with ice. If you want to tackle ice, you will need a plane which is completely equipped for flight into known icing. There are many options: Cirrus SR22 has FIKI approved models, so does Mooney, Piper and others.
With regards of Mooney are quite some models which have full de icing, such as some Ovations and Acclaims. I found two, of which one in your budget (the other one has no price tag)
Mooney Ovation year 2000 with FIKI
This is a 2000 Ovation with full flight into known icing certification and reasonably modern avionics for €180 k asking
Mooney Ovation year 1995 with FIKI
This is a 1995 Ovation with FIKI in France, also with decent equipment but no price tag (inquire)
What needs to be considered with both those planes is that they are under N-Register, which means if you go the EASA Route, you’d have to either register them in EASA Land or get US validations. There are people much more knowledgable about this here, there are certainly advantages to N-Registration. But there are also European registered Ovations or Acclaims around, just not advertized at the moment.
The Ovation will do all you want and a lot more. It is certainly FL170 capable, maximum range is however between 1600 and 2400 NM depending on the installed tanks. The 2000 Ovation which I pointed out to you in the first add has done a round the world trip and has 119 USG fuel quantity. Conservatively planning with 14.5 GPH and 190 kts this gives a range of around 7 hours flight time or 1500 NM plus 90 mins reserve. For the 900 NM you mention, the Ovation can do those in about 4:45 with approximately 70 USG used.
The Ovation is an exceptional airplane in terms of performance as well as economy. For 2 people and baggage, there is not a lot it can not do. With 4 people and bags, the range is limited to about 600-700 NM.
However: With your budget, you have a very wide choice of airplane, many of which are fully capable to deal with icing too.
The SR22 is a very obvious choice, it sports the all important parashute, is about as modern as it gets and has the range you require. Flyer59 and Boscomantico can tell you all there is to know about a Cirrus, I’d say it should be a very heavy contestant.
Or, to think outside the box:
- For less than half your budget you can buy yourself a fully de-iced and reasonably equipped Piper Seneca II or III such as for example this one:
Link
This airplane according to the add comes with 0 hour engines and props as well as decent equipment.
A Seneca II or III will fly at approximately the same speeds as an Ovation with the same fuel quantity of around 123 USG but has a range of around 850-900 NM. It will however give you the security of a 2nd engine and a larger cabin.
In the 80k Euro range, there is a wide variety of Senecas with variable equipment. What can be said about the Seneca (and other planes in this cathegory) is that for the price you can buy one, with your budget there rests a LOT of money for flying, maintenance and fuel.
Or, at your budget, you can even think of an early Seneca V.
- At the same consideration, with your budget you have a very wide variety of choice.
You can go for Emir’s excellent TB20 which is a very nicely equipped airplane of a fellow forumite here. He and Peter can give you a lot of information about the TB20 and this particular plane in specific.
Or you can even consider a low end DA42, which will allow you to forget the Avgas problems and fly with astonishing economy and a very comfortable airplane.
Or, if you can overcome your reluctance of high wing airplanes, you can even go pressurized and get some very nice Cessna P210. Now that is a cruiser which will allow quite a lot of load at quite a bit of range all in pressurized comfort at FL 200 or so.
There are not a lot of singles or light twins which are not within your budget. My advice to you would be to go out and fly as many different ones as you can and see what you feel about each and every one of them. Eventually you will get a much better idea about what you really want to get.
With your budget, what would I do? Most probably I’d go for a well equipped Seneca II or III with low time engines and full de ice or otherwise for a fully equipped and well cared for Twin Commanche, both at half price or less than your budget and use the rest for flying. On the SEP part, a very good Ovation would be my plane of choice or a P210. But that is me, everyone is different.
Hello Rob,
you write that you never owned a plane. In general I agree with the “buy your last plane first” rule but how about doing an exemption here. If you buy an old C172 and fly it for one or two years you get a good idea of what aircraft ownership is like. On my first plane share I lost few thousand Euro because I did not know better. First I felt a little bad about it but now I think it was very cheap education. I learned so much about aircraft ownership on the cheap way. Believe me you do not want to learn these things on a 200k plane unless you are seriously rich…
I have many hundreds of Cirrus hours. Personally I dont agree that it is unpleasant to hand fly. I think it is a delight and I was always happy to hand fly rather than use the autopilot. Its a comment a commonly hear, and while we are not all the same, it often comes from pilots with few hours on type. That said I am sure there may be some pilots with lots of hours on type that prefer to use the auto pilot.
Having flown lots of different singles the only further comment I would add is do consider twins. With many hours on singles and on twins I see more advantages in some twins than disadvantages. We often hear they are more costly to operate – and they are, but they can be a lot less costly to buy and there are undoubtedly some bargains around. The more flying you do, the more you may appreciate the extra engine, the stability, the added level of comfort on those sea and mountain crossings and the satisfaction of flying a twin.
It is at least worth a thought.
Rob, IMHO a better approach is to fly all of the airplanes our fellows mentioned here in above. My personal choice is Diamond DA 42. You will have all the goodies of multiengine aircraft, without the huge cost of AVGAS request by “regular” AVGAS twins in the market.
Try to fly it, for 1 hour, and you will be fall in love :)
I really like the DA42 – the only issue is that the capital cost is high. If you are comfortable with the capital cost and the maintenace its a great aircraft.
I also really like Aztecs. They are half the cost of a 42 (or less) which provides a lot of fuel and maintenance (even compared with diesel). They have superb load carrying, excellent instrument platform, good utility (rough grass not an issue), but probably not the “modern” 42 cockpit or maybe as smart an interior. 42 and the Aztec worth a look as two very different twins.
If my budget was €160k I would buy a really nice TB20GT, but then I would say that 
It’s a superb aircraft for the sort of European touring (plus a lot of local stuff) which I do. It has no handling issues at any speed above Vs and is an absolute pleasure to hand fly.
To get a serious increment in mission capability (allowing significantly different go/no-go decisions to be made without an accompanying radical change to your attitude to risk) you will need a Jetprop as the first stage to consider.
The above bit in italics is important because all the people I know who fly through frontal weather in icing conditions in rubber-boot or TKS aircraft with a turbo but no radar also have a significantly different attitude to risk to me.
However there are different stages and different people like different things, obviously. Also if you want something new and with a chute then the Cirrus is the only option.
One other thing to consider is your attitude to a 30 year old aircraft. It isn’t going to impress passengers, unless it has been comprehensively refurbished.
Whatever you do, get a prebuy inspection done by somebody working for you who knows the type well. In general, people sell planes for the same reason they sell cars: too much hassle due to too many things going wrong.
And they usually don’t disclose the full extent of it. Maintenance records are trivial to manipulate because much unscheduled work is covered by logbook inserts which the owner removes when he is selling – that’s if he put them in in the first place.
Also a lot of planes have been neglected for years preceeding the sale (many people refuse to accept changes e.g. lack of money or a lack of a medical and they keep the plane for years, before they finally decide) and there is a high risk of engine corrosion. At any GA airport there are loads of planes which have hardly flown for years.
I have seen too much of the above myself…
To get a serious increment in mission capability (allowing significantly different go/no-go decisions to be made without an accompanying radical change to your attitude to risk) you will need a Jetprop as the first stage to consider.
I disagree Peter. A Malibu or Mirage would also lead to substantially improved trip completion rates. No need for a Jetprop.
900 NM with IFR reserves limits your options, although that is a long sector in a small GA aircraft. The design box for most GA is around 500-700 NM with reserves. Although there are exceptions mentioned already.
Sebastian G provides good advice, although your preference towards low wing, might suggest a Piper Archer would be a good starter. It can climb to FL100 reasonably smartly, very simple to maintain and for some reason seems to fly nearly as fast as an Arrow! 125 KTAS vs 135 KTAS. Tough built and quite pleasant to fly.
